Brand New Tank

[Flumpus]

Well, I just got a 29g tank, with plans to make it brackish for a Figure 8 puffer. Of course I'm cycling it first, but I had a couple questions. Can I mix the salt in the tank when I fill it, then cycle it like that? Obviously there won't be any fish in it at that point, so I think I'll be ok mixing salt in the tank instead of in the bucket before I fill it (like I'll do with water changes). Is there anything special I need to know? This is my first non-freshwater tank, so I plan on cycling it, making sure the SG is around 1.005, then adding the Figure 8. That sound like a decent plan? Thanks.

 

[nmonks]

Assuming there's no fish in the tank, I'd see no reason why you couldn't add salt to the water and let the filter pump do the mixing. Of course your problem this way is it's difficult to judge the exact salinity until the salt is fully dissolved. Usually it takes something like 20 minutes for sea salt mix to dissolve, and some say longer.

I've heard people say that cycling brackish water tanks takes longer than freshwater ones. I've not experienced that, but it wouldn't do any harm to adopt a cautious approach when adding livestock.

It might be an idea to check whether or not the figure 8 puffers you've seen are being held in fresh or brackish water. Rather than aim for an arbritary figure like 1.005, try and match the dealer's tanks, and then adjust the salinity to what you want long-term across a few hours or days. Generally speaking, most euryhaline brackish water fish can be taken from fresh to salt within 24 hours (after all, they experience much more rapid changes in the wild). Going the other direction is usually more troublesome, oddly enough.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Flumpus]

Ok, great, thanks for the reply. I'll check to see what the figure 8s at the store are kept in, and try to match that. Thanks again.

EDIT: Just talked to the LFS, and they're kept at 1.008, so I'll try to match that.

 

[Flumpus]

Hmmmm... one more question. What about PH? I have a black sand substrate right now, should I mix in some crushed coral? Maybe put some dead coral in there to raise PH? Thanks.

 

[CFC]

Some argonite or crushed coral mixed into the substrate to keep the pH up is a good idea with brackish tanks

 

[Flumpus]

Thanks CFC. I'll grab some crushed coral (we liked it when we got our freshwater tank, but were advised against it because of the effect on PH) and mix it in with the sand.

Oh, and now that I have a bigger tank that originally planned (started out thinking 5g for a dwarf puffer, now i'm at six times that size, great ), would it be ok to put some bumblebee gobies in there with the Figure 8? Or possible two Figure 8s?

 

[Pufferpunk]

2-3 F8s will be fine in that tank. I have BBGs in w/my F8, but they keep coming up missing.

 

[Flumpus]

Maybe I'll go with 2 F8s then, thanks for the reply!

 

[penguinpimp1990]

would it be ok to put some bumblebee gobies in there with the Figure 8? Or possible two Figure 8s?

I wouldnt advise keeping bbg's with 8's although ive done it succesfully....... im not trying to ruin your idea of 2 figure 8's but you could try one 8 with something else like a knight goby, mollies, green spotted puffers, or glassfish. but 2 figure 8's woujld be fine in your tank.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I do not recommend housing F8s & GSPs together. GSPs are much more aggressive, grow 3x the size & require marine conditions as adults. I have 3 F8s, 2 knights & about 1/2 dozen BBGs living happily in a 29g. Like I said, some of the BBGs do come up missing... I also do 50% weekly water changes.

 

[Flumpus]

Well, I'd started out thinking on dwarf puffer in a 5g, so I was going to be thrilled with just one Figure 8 in my tank, and now anything I can add after that is just extra that I wasn't counting on. And really, if it would work, I'd like to find a different kind of fish to have a little variety. You mentioned Green Spotted Puffers (aka Leopard Puffers, right?)... I saw those at my LFS in the brackish tank with F8s, but I thought they would be too big for my tank. I'm definitely getting a Figure 8, so the GSP would be on top of that, and I thought would be too much... but would it work?

EDIT: Pufferpunk, I replied before I saw your post, and you confirmed what I thought. That sounds like a lot for a 29g, but then again a 50% weekly water change is a lot too When my tank is cycled, what should be the first fish I add? In a freshwater tropical tank I'd know, because I know the hardy fish, but with Brackish I'm not sure.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I have been doing 50% weekly water changes on all my tanks (except the reef) for 26+ years. Especially recomended for fully stocked puffer tanks.

If your tank is completely cycled you can fully stock it. How exactally are you cycling?

 

[nmonks]

I think 50% water changes are overkill, and in some cases dangerous. If I was to do a 50% water change on my tank containing halfbeaks, of example, they'd all die. Fish like these, as well as discus, some killis, and some dwarf cichlids simply cannot tolerate massive changes in water chemistry and temperature -- an inevitability if you're going to do 50% water changes.

Most fishkeeping books and magazines will recommend around 10-20% changes once a week, a figure that sounds about right to me. In my halfbeak tank I don't even do that much: experience has taught me that while a 5% water change is safe, a 10% water change is a risk.

Brackish water fish by their very nature are able to tolerate much larger changes in water chemistry than "regular" fish, and indeed making regular changes in salinity is probably therapeutic. So with nitrate-intolerant fish, like many puffers, substantial water changes probably are the way to go. But I just thought I'd make the point that 50% water changes may have their place in some situations, but I don't think they are right for all cases.

Cheers,

Neale

I have been doing 50% weekly water changes on all my tanks (except the reef) for 26+ years. Especially recomended for fully stocked puffer tanks.

 

[Flumpus]

Pufferpunk, I'm adding ammonia each day to keep it up around 2-3ppm. In the past I've always cycled with a couple really hardy fish (haven't lost any, so I'm fairly confident in my ability to do it that way), but being brackish, I can't do that. I'm hoping this will work just as well if not better.

Oh, and is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to move some filter media over to my new tank to quicken the cycle process? It greatly sped up one of our other tanks, but I didn't know if it would be ok with this, since it is brackish. Thanks.

 

[Pufferpunk]

LOL, most discus breeders do 100-200% daily water changes on their tanks. Serious goldfish keepers, 90% weekly. Here is an interesting thread about this: Water Changes.

As posted in this thread:
IME, if the fish are upset by water changes, the cause is one or more of:
1. Too great a difference in tank and make-up water parameters.
2. Chlorine/chloramine/ammonia in the change water.
3. Technique.

Water changes should energize the fish, not depress them.

Note that #1 includes temperature, pH, TDS (total dissolved solids, essentially the sum of nitrate, GH, KH, and other dissolved materials). If the tank water is more than slightly off from the make-up water, tank partials should be increased in frequency or percentage or both to improve stability of the tank water and reduce it's drift away from source/make-up water changes. At first this may seem counter-intuitive, but it is the case. The closer the match of tank and source water, the lower adaptation requirement of the fish. When partials are done frequently enough that the differences are only in low nitrate levels and minimal dissolved organics, the water quality for the fish will be optimal and the change in parameters experienced by the fish minimal.