Hi. My LFS was selling Borneo suckers and suggested them for glass cleaners as they spend 99% of their time stuck to the side of tank. We bought 3 and within a few days one had died. Now, none left! My friend, who bought them from the same place, has also had this problem. When doing a bit of reading, I've found several places that say they are cold water and not tropical fish?? Has anyone kept them or got any ideas/advice?
Borneo Suckers
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Hi. My LFS was selling Borneo suckers and suggested them for glass cleaners as they spend 99% of their time stuck to the side of tank. We bought 3 and within a few days one had died. Now, none left! My friend, who bought them from the same place, has also had this problem. When doing a bit of reading, I've found several places that say they are cold water and not tropical fish?? Has anyone kept them or got any ideas/advice?
Sorry, I just saw this section-I have posted it in the welcome bit too
Sorry, I just saw this section-I have posted it in the welcome bit too
They generally require much cooler waters than most tropical fish, a very high rate of flow and highly oxygenated water. The highest temperature they are generally kept in is around 23 degrees Celsius. I would personally not want to try keeping them in the average tropical community.
N0body Of The Goat
Oddball and African riverine fish keeper
Hillstream Loaches need sub-tropical tanks (20-22C max) and ~10-20x real water turnover including lots of water surface rippling, to ensure the oxygen levels are superb. These fish have specialist blood cells that will not give up oxygen at low concentrations, effectively suffocating the fish.
They are commonly sold as algae eaters, but this is a half-truth. In the wild they appear to graze on algae, which they do eat, but they are mainly after the tiny critters calle "aufwuchs" that live amongst the algae. In the hobby, you should give them a mix of algae wafers and meaty foods. When newly purchased, it can help to "paint rocks/pebbles" with crushed dried foodstuffs and egg white, that has dried hard before adding to the tank. This way the fish get to feed like they were in the wild and get to recognise the staple diet you plan to give them.
Just like Chaetostoma ("Rubbernose Plec") species from similar conditions in the American continent, they do not travel particularly well from wholesaler to shop to fishkeeper, often arriving with sunken stomachs and sometimes even non-recoverable sunken eyes. It is absolutely vital that new purchases are put in their own quarantine tank with a mature filter, so they can get their first regular decent meals often in weeks, after a few weeks (and hopefully with nicely plump bellies by this stage) they can join communities that can tolerate their specialist requirements.
Not a fish for new setups, filters and tanks need to be mature (>6 months IMO), they will not tolerate anything but the smallest of ammonia/nitrite spikes which are then sorted with ~95% water changes ASAP and the tank setup has to be focused around their oxygen needs. Once all this is covered they are great fish, my male Aborichthys elongatus (Indian Redtail Squirrel Loach) will have been with me 3 years this June, he has been very entertaining and has lived with African "Congo rapids" fish most of his time with me.
They are commonly sold as algae eaters, but this is a half-truth. In the wild they appear to graze on algae, which they do eat, but they are mainly after the tiny critters calle "aufwuchs" that live amongst the algae. In the hobby, you should give them a mix of algae wafers and meaty foods. When newly purchased, it can help to "paint rocks/pebbles" with crushed dried foodstuffs and egg white, that has dried hard before adding to the tank. This way the fish get to feed like they were in the wild and get to recognise the staple diet you plan to give them.
Just like Chaetostoma ("Rubbernose Plec") species from similar conditions in the American continent, they do not travel particularly well from wholesaler to shop to fishkeeper, often arriving with sunken stomachs and sometimes even non-recoverable sunken eyes. It is absolutely vital that new purchases are put in their own quarantine tank with a mature filter, so they can get their first regular decent meals often in weeks, after a few weeks (and hopefully with nicely plump bellies by this stage) they can join communities that can tolerate their specialist requirements.
Not a fish for new setups, filters and tanks need to be mature (>6 months IMO), they will not tolerate anything but the smallest of ammonia/nitrite spikes which are then sorted with ~95% water changes ASAP and the tank setup has to be focused around their oxygen needs. Once all this is covered they are great fish, my male Aborichthys elongatus (Indian Redtail Squirrel Loach) will have been with me 3 years this June, he has been very entertaining and has lived with African "Congo rapids" fish most of his time with me.
N0body Of The Goat
Oddball and African riverine fish keeper
I lost most of my Aborichthys elongatus group (mentioned in the OPs cross-posting exact thread in another section, naughty naughty!) in the summer heatwave of 2010, when their initial tank hit 27C for a few weeks, even with water rippling. My surviving male has normally been kept at 22/23C, with massive water movement, especially water surface rippling (eg. FX5 ~2300lph firing across the surface of a 5x2x2; 2x APS2000EFs ~2400lph total across a 48x17x17).
Keeping these sort of fish at 24C or above permanently is risky in my opinion and experience, at 24C the water can hold ~8mg/l oxygen if aerated enough and water quality is excellent. The cooler the better, but dpending upon what the fish actually are, <20C can become too cold and the fish shut down. A member (sorry, cannot recall name, had a log in Athernids section) on here setup a "hillstream" tank and lost numerous fish while the water was <20C.
Keeping these sort of fish at 24C or above permanently is risky in my opinion and experience, at 24C the water can hold ~8mg/l oxygen if aerated enough and water quality is excellent. The cooler the better, but dpending upon what the fish actually are, <20C can become too cold and the fish shut down. A member (sorry, cannot recall name, had a log in Athernids section) on here setup a "hillstream" tank and lost numerous fish while the water was <20C.
I keep quite a few Borneo Suckers and thoroughly love them.
I am keeping mine in a 4ft tank with no chiller with pretty good filteration but not jets of water flow and a couple of airstones in a fairly heavily planted tank without ferts or co2 injectors. My Borneo suckers have sailed through two stinking hot summers where the tank regularly got over and stayed over 30+ degrees for days on end without much relief at night. Out of summer the tank gets as low as 18 degrees (furtherest away from the heater and on really cold nights) but generally stays around the 20-22 mark.
Because all sorts of species are sold as Borneo Suckers it is best to try and Identify which types you have or hope to get and then try and work out which water requirements they have. I have 3 possibly 4 species of Borneo Sucker and I have not found them to be a problem, taking prepared foods readily, cleaning plants but not eating them and just generally not bothering anyone else in the tank.
I am keeping mine in a 4ft tank with no chiller with pretty good filteration but not jets of water flow and a couple of airstones in a fairly heavily planted tank without ferts or co2 injectors. My Borneo suckers have sailed through two stinking hot summers where the tank regularly got over and stayed over 30+ degrees for days on end without much relief at night. Out of summer the tank gets as low as 18 degrees (furtherest away from the heater and on really cold nights) but generally stays around the 20-22 mark.
Because all sorts of species are sold as Borneo Suckers it is best to try and Identify which types you have or hope to get and then try and work out which water requirements they have. I have 3 possibly 4 species of Borneo Sucker and I have not found them to be a problem, taking prepared foods readily, cleaning plants but not eating them and just generally not bothering anyone else in the tank.
TooManyChoices
Fish Crazy
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I have seen the fish in the wild! Not sure on the exact species but let's just call them Borneo suckers, they basically all have the same requirements. Guess where I saw them? BORNEO! I was doing a trek through some very remote rainforest at the time and this is a photo I took of one of the rivers that I saw them in.
I can tell you something after seeing them in this environment. They're NOT ideal community fish. Sure they survive but the way I saw them dancing about the rocks together amidst very fast water was something that you just don't get in a community tank!
Not only is the flow hard to emulate, but the water these fish are from is COLD! That photo is taken up in the mountains, in incredibly thick tropical rainforest, those streams though are actual mountain streams! THEY'RE COLD! Whilst I was there I was kicking myself for not having a thermometer on me! But on a hike you don't really need one!
I can tell you something after seeing them in this environment. They're NOT ideal community fish. Sure they survive but the way I saw them dancing about the rocks together amidst very fast water was something that you just don't get in a community tank!
Not only is the flow hard to emulate, but the water these fish are from is COLD! That photo is taken up in the mountains, in incredibly thick tropical rainforest, those streams though are actual mountain streams! THEY'RE COLD! Whilst I was there I was kicking myself for not having a thermometer on me! But on a hike you don't really need one!
They do keep getting sold as 'cold water algae eaters', tbh not many places sell them as tropical species as tropical temperatures just aren't good for them.
Personally, I found 22-23 deg Celsius was the best temperature range, a powerhead at one end angled straight across just over the pebbles to increase flow and lots of round smooth pebbles for them to scramble about on.
Also made it easier to rotate pebbles with ones in a bucket outside growing algae so there was a constant supply. More to the point, its not really the algae they are eating as much as the aufwuchs (microscopic life) living in the algae which is really hard to replicate with shop bought foods. If you don't get it right, they will starve to death.... if the high tropical temps don't do it first.
Lovely fish and tbh have a little more chance of surviving than people sticking common plecs in small coldwater tanks so I can resent them completely...
If you want similar fish in slightly warmer water up to 24 deg C then the Sewellia lineolata are a better species, though a little more thuggish in behaviour, mine chase the corys all over the tank!
Personally, I found 22-23 deg Celsius was the best temperature range, a powerhead at one end angled straight across just over the pebbles to increase flow and lots of round smooth pebbles for them to scramble about on.
Also made it easier to rotate pebbles with ones in a bucket outside growing algae so there was a constant supply. More to the point, its not really the algae they are eating as much as the aufwuchs (microscopic life) living in the algae which is really hard to replicate with shop bought foods. If you don't get it right, they will starve to death.... if the high tropical temps don't do it first.
Lovely fish and tbh have a little more chance of surviving than people sticking common plecs in small coldwater tanks so I can resent them completely...
If you want similar fish in slightly warmer water up to 24 deg C then the Sewellia lineolata are a better species, though a little more thuggish in behaviour, mine chase the corys all over the tank!
The species of Borneo Suckers that I have are what I would consider the more common types being Gastromyzon ctenocphalus, G. scitulus, G. stellatus and a fourth type similar to G. zebrinus but not it exactly.
The tank as stated is a 4ft tank with fairly strong filteration from one end of the tank to the other, most of the tank is sand for the corydoras that share the tank but there are also large flat rocks for the Borneos to feed off, especially one large slab of stone that is angled under the strongest part of the return from the HOB filter. This rock the Borneo Suckers have learnt catches some of the food so at feeding time most of them can be found converging on this rock with wood swirling about them. The tank is well lit for the plants which the Borneo Suckers wont eat but are happy to hide in amongst and feed off.
I know the heat of summer tank temps are not ideal, that is why I have extra airstones running in the tank to get as much surface movement as possible while also having an open topped tank to try and increase evaporation. But aside from the depths of Summer and the few cold dyas and nights of winter the tank stays around 22 degrees cel the rest of the year. I think the saving grace for my Borneo Suckers is that I have only ever purchased them in Autumn or late winter, and that enables the Borneo Suckers to acclimatise to the tank extremes more gradually, rather than expecting them to survive in a really hot tank when they where not used to it at all. Also the tank my Borneo Suckers are in is a REALLY mature tank, it has been kicking along for well over 6 years, with no issues or problems.
The tank as stated is a 4ft tank with fairly strong filteration from one end of the tank to the other, most of the tank is sand for the corydoras that share the tank but there are also large flat rocks for the Borneos to feed off, especially one large slab of stone that is angled under the strongest part of the return from the HOB filter. This rock the Borneo Suckers have learnt catches some of the food so at feeding time most of them can be found converging on this rock with wood swirling about them. The tank is well lit for the plants which the Borneo Suckers wont eat but are happy to hide in amongst and feed off.
I know the heat of summer tank temps are not ideal, that is why I have extra airstones running in the tank to get as much surface movement as possible while also having an open topped tank to try and increase evaporation. But aside from the depths of Summer and the few cold dyas and nights of winter the tank stays around 22 degrees cel the rest of the year. I think the saving grace for my Borneo Suckers is that I have only ever purchased them in Autumn or late winter, and that enables the Borneo Suckers to acclimatise to the tank extremes more gradually, rather than expecting them to survive in a really hot tank when they where not used to it at all. Also the tank my Borneo Suckers are in is a REALLY mature tank, it has been kicking along for well over 6 years, with no issues or problems.
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