Blue Ram Not Doing So Good.

[TigerIssey]

You want to use bicarbonate of soda NOT baking powder. Baking powder will gloop in the aquarium not good for fish.
You really need to raise the KH slowly, Bicarb will do it too quickly further stressing the fish.
Do water changes daily, 25%, the KH should stabilise in a few days. Make sure before you use CO2 again, you test the KH of your tank water and check it on the CO2 chart using KH and pH (pinned link in planted section). Some water has CO2 content too high for fish, this is the shaded area on the chart. If you can't find it I can scan and email it to you (pm email address).
Tina

 

[Truck]

you test the KH of your tank water and check it on the CO2 chart using KH and pH (pinned link in planted section).
Tina

this chart is NOT an accurate way of measuring CO2 the best way is using a drop checker, some bromo blue and 4dKH water

 

[TigerIssey]

It may be. However the fish are dealing with KH shock. You really don't want to increase the KH quickly, you want to do it slowly to cause as little stress on the fish as possible.

 

[Truck]

KH shock? the KH wont have moved! the PH will have

 

[TigerIssey]

The KH will have dropped. I see this regulary in my own tank without the addition of CO2. The KH over time will drop anyway. Fish can in general cope with that drop in pH. It is the KH dropping that is the problem. The OP has not even given a KH figure, how can you inject CO2 without nfirst measuring the KH. There was a topic covering this recently

Other thread Rabbut information

 

[Truck]

if you suddenly drop the PH in this case it would have been 2 hours, ish,, KH drops over time but not with the addition of CO2.

 

[TigerIssey]

Regardless of the type of shock, you should not add co2 without knowing your KH and you need to raise KH and pH slowly, otherwise you will re shock them.

 

[lyotim88]

thanks for the help but the rams dead now neway

 

[Truck]

 

[TigerIssey]

That is a real shame.

Please get the KH tested. I have ultra low KH and you really need to know before adding CO2.

 

[SuperColey1]

I don't really know why KH has come into this argument?

Co2 DOES NOT alter KH. There are indirect ways KH can be affected by Ph but that is normally by raising KH. With this meaning that the increased acidity caused by the CO2 may mean that another source of carbonate (crushed coral for example) will dissolve quicker than normal and RAISE the KH.

I personally have no idea of my KH nor am I worried about it and push my CO2 to it's max. I have a breeding colony of shrimps and corys within this tank!!! I used to have Rams before an incident involving my 3 year old son and washing up liquid and yes they were also breeding nicely!!!

It does sound like a CO2 problem but more likely is asphyxiation than a KH problem unless there is indeed another source of carbonate within the tank to react with the extra acidity in which case the KH will be going in the upward direction and dragging the Ph along with it. The OP clearly stated a drop in Ph so we can rule this out!!!

There are some very advanced members of this forum who inject very high CO2 at a KH of 0, yes 0 with no effects to their livestock. They do not raise the KH with buffers nor want to. It is the road to ruin for most people when they start tampering with parameter changing chemicals.

As Truckasaurus says above oxygen does not dissappear as CO2 is added. They are independent of each other. This is why many of us use a good bit of surface turbulence to get O into the water and then increase the injection more to compensate for CO2 loss and therefore maintain our 30ppm or so. He is also right that you cannot take that chart as anywhere near accurate for reading CO2. This is well known within planted as it can give the impression to some people they are at 70ppm when in fact the were well under 20!!! This is why we use reference solutions in drop checkers and/or watch our fish/plants for a reading of the level.

This sounds to me like a simple case of a sick fish or asphyxiation. the latter I would doubt very much with a DIY yeast system!!!

p.s. Baking Soda IS Bicarbinate of Soda. That is what the US call it. They call Baking powder.......Baking powder just as we do

With increase dissolved CO2, pH will drop. kH remains the same due to the presense of CO3.

AC

 

[TigerIssey]

A low KH makes pH more unstable. If you read my first post I did say there was too much CO2 which does poison fish. I suggested aerating the tank to counteract this.
If I added CO2 to my tank with a KH of 6.0, my pH would crash, there is not enough KH to buffer the pH. That is where KH comes into this. Also the lower my pH goes consequently the KH does lower. If you have hard water you are lucky in this respect, damn lucky. I have to check the KH regularly before waterchanges and add Bicarb to the water going into the tank.
The advice Truckasaurus gave was to raise the pH with Bicarb, this would have raised the pH quickly which would have reshocked the fish. I believe this would have caused more suffering for the fish.

 

[Truck]

A low KH makes pH more unstable. If you read my first post I did say there was too much CO2 which does poison fish. I suggested aerating the tank to counteract this.
If I added CO2 to my tank with a KH of 6.0, my pH would crash, there is not enough KH to buffer the pH. That is where KH comes into this. Also the lower my pH goes consequently the KH does lower. If you have hard water you are lucky in this respect, damn lucky. I have to check the KH regularly before waterchanges and add Bicarb to the water going into the tank.
The advice Truckasaurus gave was to raise the pH with Bicarb, this would have raised the pH quickly which would have reshocked the fish. I believe this would have caused more suffering for the fish.

The Kh does not go lower when the PH does!!! you would have to have a lot of CO2 for that to happen!!!

 

[TigerIssey]

Water with a low KH and low pH does tend to have alot more co2 content in the first place, that is why the CO2 chart is useful before you add co2. Just adding excel to my tank can cause instability problems.
I don't need any extra co2 and plants grow pretty quickly in my tank. If you have a low KH, using George Farmers pinned article as a guide to the Nutrafin DIY mix co2 unit, George tells you to add a stabilser if you have low KH. The OP had not done this. How do you know to add a stabiliser, if you don't check the KH in the first place.

 

[Truck]

you add stabiliser to the mixture