Black Spots

[black angel]

If its black spot then the spots are really tiny and smaller than ich, is that what you are seeing?
http/saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/o...amp%3Bnotcom%3D

Is the fish lethargic and scratching?

 

[ileopard]

My cameraphone takes bad pics. You can't see the spots in the picture I took with it, so I won't attach it here.

She is not trying to get them off her, but she stays in one place mostly. Occasionally she will go somewhere else. It's either top or bottom.

That looks like it, too, but it's not on her whole body. I only have 10 gallon tanks, so I put 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt in my tanks after every 100% water changes (the tank seems to get VERY dirty after a week which is why I do 100% changes every week). I found a page for saltwater aquariums (My aquarium is saltwater. Saltwater with freshwater fish) and it said to use a trichlorofon solution. Luckily I have Kordon Trifon. I will put that in tonight.

How long should I use Trifon, and can I do 0.75mg (the most powerful)? The package says it can be used in ingredient concentrations of 0.25 to 0.75mg/L. Her previous treatment with me has been a one hour formalin bath at 75ppm. I don't know what the previous treatments were at the breeder I got her from (she's a HM).

Also, pH is about 7.4 here. The temperature in her tank is 86*F. (I was hoping they would go freeswimming at that temperature).

 

[starrynightxxi]

what do you mean your tank is saltwater with freshwater fish?

 

[ileopard]

I put aquarium salt in my tanks (1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons is what the directions say). I use only 10 gallon tanks, so I put 2 tablespoons. It prevents ick.

 

[starrynightxxi]

well, without getting into the debate over whether or not aquarium salt actually does anything, adding it doesn't make your tank a saltwater tank. It's a freshwater tank and you need to be buying freshwater meds. Saltwater medication could potentially kill your fish as its chemical makeup is different from that of freshwater meds to counteract the effect of MARINE salt (which is not AQUARIUM salt).

 

[ileopard]

Trifon is a freshwater and saltwater med, and so is formalin. Some of the spots seem to be gone now, thanks to the formalin bath. I looked at a saltwater diseases page which had an exact description of what I've got - black spots, very few of them (less than Ick), and not very deadly. It stated to use a trichlorofon-based solution (Trifon).

 

[ileopard]

I did a 100% water change to remove the formalin, and I'm still trying to get the temperature to go down to 73*F which is what she's at right now in the other temporary tank. The heater can go up, but not down.

It's currently 80*F versus 73*F. She might be able to handle a 1*F temperature change, but definitely not a 7*F change.

Is there any easy way of getting the temperature to go down? (I've got the heater set at 73*F.)

 

[ileopard]

She now has a curved spine. I'm trying to reheat her tank, but I'm thinking my best option is probably euthanasia. What do you think - or maybe I should try a day of Trifon?

 

[starrynightxxi]

you know, black spots and skeletal deformities are both symptoms of fish TB...

Symptoms can include:

Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)

http/www.4qd.org/Aqua/disease/tb.html

 

[ileopard]

She is hanging at the surface, not eating, has black spots, and a curved spine. I think we caught it. I put her in with the other girls before she started showing these symptoms. Will Jungle anti-bacterial food kill any fish TB bacteria that may be in my other community girls which seem to be fine? They don't have any symptoms, but I want to prevent it. I can't do this to this girl, since she won't eat.

The only thing I can think of is injecting her with Maracyn, which is erythromycin (?). Is there a guide on injecting that? I can get a medicine dropper. (Another issue is getting a needle, I don't think a pharmacy would give me a needle unless it was prescribed, and if I went to a vet, they probably would charge me an arm and a leg for it.) If I am able to inject Maracyn, how much should it be? Every packet of Maracyn is 240mg erythromycin, according to my package of it.

This would be a last attempt to save her. And how many days does it take to die of starvation? It's been 30 days since she last ate.

 

[starrynightxxi]

takes a long time to die of starvation, i had a betta not eat for 2 months. I'm afraid i don't really know anything about curing fish TB, you would have to research it. I just thought about it when you mentioned the bent spine.

Hopefully the other girls don't have anything, but you'll have to wait on that to know for sure. maybe try in the emergency section see if anybody knows anything about it.

sorry

 

[ileopard]

Thanks. I'll post there. The other girls are healthy, without the recent stress, so their immune system should fight it off. If I see any symptoms, I will try to treat them. She had the recent stress, and I guess the mycobacteriosis marinum bacteria happened to be present in the aquarium and affected her. It also could have been that she had it with the breeder.

She also did not respond to both a copper (CopperSafe) and a formalin treatment. 6 symptoms that seem to match fish TB.

* Loss of appetite
* Not responding to 2 treatments which cure black spots
* Sitting at the surface
* Black spots
* Spinal deformities
* Not responding to heat at 86*F-88*F (The heater jumped up when I thought it stopped at 86*F)

 

[Kyrielle]

As far as I know, TB in fish can't be cured. Even in curing it in humans, it takes a long time and multiple antibiotics.

 

[ileopard]

I believe it can if you have erythromycin injected into the fish. Even then, it's probably not guaranteed. If the TB has already done enough damage, it probably can't be fixed.