Best Substrate (if Money Were No Object)

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It is 1-6mm grain size. it is a gravel, hence why it doesnt cloud like other clay products - eg, flourite.
It is "soft belly" safe, but not burrower friendly - taken from caribsea website.

flourite black sand is softer, and will cloud more easily, so to minimize this you will have to wash it plenty of times but thats not to say it wont break up if disturbed a lot.
 
Oh and does anyone have an opinion on flourite? Specifically flourite black sand? Looking at eco-complete it seems a bit like gravel...and I don't want to cause my rams and kuhlis any problems.

I'll answer as a fish person rather than a planted person. If it were me, I'd go for sand and just dose the water column with the ferts your plants would require. Then you know your fish will be fine and you don't have to worry. Perhaps a bit simplistic.
 
Oh and just to check, there's nothing else I need to know about eco complete? Is it round/small grained enough for bottom feeders as I have kuhli loaches... And also my bolivian rams like to sift through the sand to filter food out.

Money isn't an issue???

Well this is what I use in all my tanks now and I raise discus

1st Layer
Vermaculite mixed with peat moss mixed 2-1 and soak the Vermaculite before mixing (Maybe $20 at most for mixture)
1.5-2"
2nd Layer
Clay Soaked in EI dosing (From $5-$15 30lbs bag)
2" (This will cloud water if you pour water on it atleast thats what I ran into before)
3rd Layer
Sand pretty much anykind you prefer I use Silica sand (From $2 per bag in up)

My stocking is Cory Discus Kulie Loaches

I find this works great for me to fill the tank put a bowl in the fish tank upside down and pour water into the bowl. Fill tank half way plant all the plants and fill the rest of the way. I use this mixture in all My tanks now and stay away from all the fish store products they try to sell you although this method might cost more takes longer to setup but if you get the right clay it never stops working :) (The key to the clay is exorb and exhale and exorb and exhale etc)

I think eco complete exhausts itself after about 1-2 years and needs to be replaced so I have heard from others I am pretty sure its eco complete but cant remember

p.s my tank has been going for a year, the only issue is pulling rooted plants out like IE a sword plant (Huge roots) leads to mixture getting in the tank but a fish net catches most the debris lol. I don't pull plants out anymore just cut them flush to eaither grow back or die off if crouwded with other plants :)
 
I didn't think money would be an issue due to me asking for it for Christmas, but then I didn't imagine it would cost £100 in substrate! Lol.

I think I might just have to go for a different coloured sand, although naturesoil would be perfect, I can't ask for that for christmas. Too expensive.
 
i have around 100kgs of eco complete ready for my next 4ft scape, so i will grab a handful and see if it clouds.
i find that capping is way to much effort and the substrates just end up being badly mixed
 
Could you tell me if it's suitable for earth eaters..?

I have only ever used EC once, and I have to say I didn`t like it. I could hear it scratching against the tank sides when I moved it around, suggesting to me that it could have some sharp edges. The grain sized is quite varied, and generally too large for most fish to sift through.

Personally, I would go for play sand, which would probably be the first choice for your fish, too. With the money you save from not buying ADA etc, you could invest in Tropica TPN+, and ensure your plants have sufficient nutrients in the water column. You would even some money left to buy some more fish, too.

EC does not contain a great many nutrients anyway. It is its CEC that grabs nutrients from the water column to make them available at the plant roots. Whilst fertilisation via roots and leaves is the preferred choice, it is not necessary.

Dave.
 
I already have play sand, but want to go from it being so bright to being darker.

I've seen my rams when they're in the 'darker' corners and the colours are just so much more vivid. They have neon blue lips!

So even if after all this I decide to stick with inert sand, I will still be swapping tahitan moon sand at the very least. However I figured seeing as I'm switching substrates anyways it's definitely worth looking into the best fertilising ones. I do dose TPN+, but the additional root fertilisation would be really really useful for my plants as I basically have a GH and KH value of 0.
 
I already have play sand, but want to go from it being so bright to being darker.

I really start reading threads from the beginning. Any of the darker sands mentioned should be fine, but I`m not sure on grain size, as I have never used any of them.

I do dose TPN+, but the additional root fertilisation would be really really useful for my plants as I basically have a GH and KH value of 0.

Have you considered GH booster from Aqua Essentials or Fluidsensor. I have similar water to you, so I added GH booster for Mg and Ca, although I have found that it isn`t really necessary in my case.

Dave.
 
I've thought about it several times, but my pH holds steady (not sure how!) but it does. And the fish I have are fine in soft water so at the moment I'm just putting up with it.

Wish I had a spare £100 :( , I'm genuinely in two minds...I'm also not sure what would be better, dark brown or black...
Dark brown seems more natural...
 
i have around 100kgs of eco complete ready for my next 4ft scape, so i will grab a handful and see if it clouds.
i find that capping is way to much effort and the substrates just end up being badly mixed

Eh, depends, I don't mind the look.
 
Enjoying this interesting thread Curiosity! I have the black version of Seachem Flourite and I can confirm that its way too sharp-edged for corys and other bottom diggers I feel. It has noticeably sharper edges than the typical natural-colored inert gravel I'd been used to in years past.

There may be a smaller grained version of this stuff by now, mine is from a couple years ago. I got it because I had to get something, knew I couldn't absorb all the kind of background thinking like you're doing here but still wanted to try and get "part way there."

I'm curious, why did the oliver knott naturesoil go off your list? That sounded pretty interesting to me.

And another question: is the black T. Moon Sand more of a sand-grained size or closer to gravel size? And just how smooth is it?

WD
 
Oliver knott...at first it was price (I didn't expect it to cost quite that much!), then it was because on the site it says...
7. Important usage instructions!
- Do not put in burrowing fishes in aquariums with NatureSoil (large corydoras, large L-catfish,
cichlids, and others).

After all of the googling (pictures and reviews), the moon sand seems to be just sand. My current plan is for 1 Bag of Flourite Black sand (soaked in nutrients beforehand like you can with normal flourite black), capped with 2 bags of moon sand. Apparently the flourite is more grey than it is black, and that'd really annoy me, lol.
As they're both sands then the flourite shouldn't make it's way to the top over time, and because they're both sands and both black (well...grey black for the flourite), if/when they do mix it should be ok.

It's also meant to be as smooth a play sand.
 
Interesting, so the Flourite Black Sand is grayer in color than the regular Flourite Black? The "regular" stuff I have is very black. (I actually mixed mine with some plain black bagged aquarium gravel because I had already had it sitting around. In the longer run that turned out to be a bit of a mistake because a small percentage of the plain gravel turned white after the black coating scratched/wore off.)

WD
 
Oliver knott...at first it was price (I didn't expect it to cost quite that much!), then it was because on the site it says...
7. Important usage instructions!
- Do not put in burrowing fishes in aquariums with NatureSoil (large corydoras, large L-catfish,
cichlids, and others).

After all of the googling (pictures and reviews), the moon sand seems to be just sand. My current plan is for 1 Bag of Flourite Black sand (soaked in nutrients beforehand like you can with normal flourite black), capped with 2 bags of moon sand. Apparently the flourite is more grey than it is black, and that'd really annoy me, lol.
As they're both sands then the flourite shouldn't make it's way to the top over time, and because they're both sands and both black (well...grey black for the flourite), if/when they do mix it should be ok.

It's also meant to be as smooth a play sand.
Im sure Oli Knott is smooth clay so i am not sure why it says that, here is a close up

LondonDragon (Paulo)
pict0084u.jpg


thanks, Aaron
 

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