Aquired A Freak ?

[b3cca]

So rang around local stores trying to find a new juvi female GBR.
 
Finally found a store that said they had them and sent my brother to get one for me but when he returned I looked at the fish which had the correct markings etc but looked really deformed and squished.
 
So I had a quick google and have found out she is actually an Angel/balloon blue ram.
 
honestly it looks so strange shaped it doesn't even seem able to swin correctly and it's also been breathing hard for over a day so I don't hold up much hope that she'll actually live much longer.
 
Anybody have experience with keeping these balloon types and why do they even deform them in the first place idk ?
 

 

[star4]

I have never kept any "balloon" fish, simply because I personally do not like them. They are yet another "man made" fish for the aquatic trade, they are purposely bred with bent or deformed spines to create this ballon fashion. It most likely came about with one person breeding an entire batch of closely related fish and rather than destroy them created a market by classing them as a "new style" of fish. Most of these poor fish have trouble swimming and are prone to digestive problems because their internal organs have been squashed into a smaller space than they should be and many have shortened life spans because of this.

 

[shrimply]

In fairness star a lot of that is assumption, selective breeding is very common and hasn't got that much especially to do with inbreeding as it is commonly understood, a lot of breeders, particularly of pet animals do have their best interests at heart, will go out of their way to bring in new stock to prevent inbreeding depression in their lines and will cease breeding programs if there appears to be more health issues than is acceptable with the animals.  I'm not saying what you say about balloon fish is untrue but there is a lot of unfair critisim of it I think.
 
I'm speaking generally, I know little about pet fish breeing (although I have studied a fair bit on commercial fish breeding).  But remember most fish that are being captive bred now, have been selected, intentionally, or otherwise to some degree.  Just look at platies, and guppies and swordtails, compared to their wild equivalents. Discus and anglefish are very much bred and selected for particular colours.
 
I think it's unfair to complain about things being "man-made" or be against them, or else you wouldn't eat anything becuase it's all man-made.  All domestic pets are generally "man-made". 
 
And I'm not saying I'm for everything that has been created by man, some of the outcomes of what we have selected for are truly cruel.  I'm not sure though that a fish with a bit of a rounder body will be that much less healthy, if you have documentation to prove me wrong though I'd love to read it.

 

[star4]

While I agree there are many "man made" animals that possibly do have benefits (wonder when we will have that 6 legged chicken though) there are some that are done purely for "fashion" and balloon fish falls under that catagory...
 
http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3436
 
Extract taken from another forum, due to this forum rules I cannot post the link so copied it..
 
"Be aware of deformed and abused species 
 
Researching fish you might like at first glance can throw up some interesting facts. Most fish keepers I have spoke to who keep freshwater Parrot Fish were unaware that the fish are a man-made cross of several species and their unusual shape is the result of heavy deformities, including fused bones and miss-shaped organs. If they had known this, they most certainly would have avoided the fish. Whilst the selling of these fish is not illegal, it does encourage the popularity of this type of process, which is detrimental to the fish's welfare, and often causes problems for fish keepers through an increased likelihood of health problems, and unpredictable behaviours. Many fish are bred for different colours and strains, and most are perfectly healthy and acceptable, but deformed species such as Parrot Fish, or Balloon Mollies, should be avoided. A good retailer will never sell these fish, although many stores fall short of acceptable practices and still do. Died fish are less common than in past years, but they do still crop up, so be wary of any fish with very bright or fluorescent colours and if you are in any doubt, try to research the species to find its natural appearance."
 
 
Taken from PFK....http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3834
 
Balloon fish
The breeding of shortened bodies in ornamental fish is actually quite common. Fancy goldfish were first of course, though some seem less shocking because they have always been that way throughout living memory. But take a tropical fish that we like and appreciate in its natural form like the Ram or this Pearl gourami for example and it looks pretty shocking. Balloon fish are missing vertebrae so are at a skeletal disadvantage when compared to their more able-bodied tank mates.
 
If you take it that vertebrae are missing the internal organs have less space to function as intended, instead of being spread out as this shows..
 
http/www.infovisual.info/02/033_en.html
 
The are packed into a smaller space thus giving the bloated look as they have no where else to go.
 
 As to the exact time tropical balloon fish came into "fashion" and the reason behind it, it is only my assumption (and that of a fellow fishkeeper I was talking to one day) that it was most likely by accident and rather than destroy the batch give them a new name, I admit that is my own theory and have no evidence to prove otherwise. However in the goldfish world deliberately breeding fish with deformities has been going on forever and is considered completely normal, hence why no one really bats an eyelid now tropical fish are undergoing the same treatment. I dread seeing bubble eyed oscars and guppies *shudder*
 
You only have to take a look beneath the surface to see what messing with nature does, check out this scull of a "blood parrot"
 
http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5504
 
then use your imagination as to how the skeletal deformities in a balloon fish must affect it.
 
I appreciate that not everyone will share my views and some people love balloon fish, just I personally do not.

 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/431459-balloon-rams/?hl=%2Bballoon+%2Bfish

 

[b3cca]

Gosh I would never buy one that had been altered and bred deformed on purpose.
I do have a deformed Cherry Barb who was born like that but he is the most active of all and nearly 2 years old so thankfully it doesn't seem to bother him
 
I wouldn't eat any fish or animals either although I am aware some shampoos, cosmetics etc do use animal stuff and shimmer glosses use fish scales etc
Selective breeding to make something that clearly struggles to swim and function normally is stupid imo.
 
Anyways she was stuck to the filter purely because she can't swim strongly enough but now I've turned the filter down she is ok but still breathing hard I will be surprised if she's still alive in the morning.
 
I rang the fish store to ask what PH they keep their rams in and the lady on the phone said she wasn't sure

So won't be using them again anyways.
 
Moral of the story -- only buy fish you have seen and checked yourself and don't trust your Brother lol

 

[shrimply]

So you wouldn't eat animals, but you'll eat plants that can no longer reproduce by themselves, or that have been bred to have 6 times the numbers of chromosomes they'd have naturally.  Who's looking out for the plants
 
Everybody has their own lines in terms of what is acceptable, but it pays to remember that nobody really understands genetics completely.  Saying that body deformities are a step too far but colour morphs are fine is based purely on visual appearance of the fish health.  Genes for certain colour strains can often be linked to more serious problems.   In the reptile breeding world, breeding purely for colouration has led to serious neurological issues in certain strains.  Dogs with certain colourations are known to be more likely to be deaf.  It's highly likely that it is also linked to reduced offspring survival and shortened lifespan which would probably never even be noticed in the aquatic industry.
 
So is a physical deformity worse than a shorter lifespan or reduced ability to communicate with conspecifics etc or only because it is more obviously a problem.
 
I've not seen any scientific literature on the decreased health of balloon fish,I wouldn't buy them either, I much prefer natural looking individuals both in terms of shape and colour but I wonder how much of the PFK writing is speculation.  I'm not convinced there is really less space for internal organs either, they might be slightly differently arranged but I think there is a fair chance they are still all functioning correctly (Again this is totally speculation), but they aren't being required to support an individual much larger than they were intended to or anything like that.
 
Again, I am kinda just playing devils advocate for the debate - but I'd argue that colour morphs could be considered as bad ethically as this sort of ballooning, I'd bet quite a lot of money that there is a much higher proportion of deformed fish produced from specialist high colour lines that are never seen because the breeders knock them on the head.

 

[star4]

I am sorry I cannot back up my argument with scientific proof, because its not really something that scientists have papers on. Changing pets appearance for the sake of fashion is not scientific, modifying plants and animals in a laboratory with testing, monitoring and noting results is. Modifying plants and animals for the sake of feeding the world has become a necessity due to the over population of the planet by humans. 
 
There is no scientific proof that the bulldog for example can have difficulty breathing due to the breed standards requiring a shorter and shorter snout and head so large that most puppies have to be born by c section, there is a huge list of other animals that have been modified over time. Yes I also agree colour morphs are also a popular thing that is done, the most common being the kissing gourami, most people think they are naturally pink, not green.

 

[b3cca]

She died anyways
Probably not due to the morph or anything, likely just didn't travel or adapt well I'm guessing and never recovered.

 

[star4]

I am sorry

 

[Brilly91]

Awwww poor thing