Aquarium Ph

[mark4785]

I am currently cycling a 150 litre aquarium and I am not overly confident to put fish into it due to my lack of knowledge regarding changing PH levels.

I also currently own a mature pond (3 years old) and the PH is currently 8.4 with a KH level of 10dH. The alkaline water has resulted in blanket weed and green water which is not controllable even by use of strong algicides. I'm sick to the back teeth of it because I think it stems from the alkaline water which I'm finding hard to lower.

I have tried using NTLabs 'PH Down' product to bring the PH down but I've since learned that a high KH level which is also known as alkalinity will buffer the PH to an alkaline level.

So what do I do now? Do I need to bring the KH level down? If so how do I do this? What level KH holds a PH level of 7.4 - 7.6?

Once I have a more reasonable KH level, what natural PH buffers can I use with my pond (AND my tank) to hold my PH at a level of 7.4 - 7.6? I have come across crushed coral and crushed oyster shell which are said to buffer the waters PH but no one seems to agree what kind of PH influence they have on the water chemistry.

I have really hit a brick wall with this. I do need some help and fast.

Mark.

 

[drobbyb]

Hi mark!

Ok, looks as if you have come across some conflicting information. Firstly, let me ease your mind about alkaline conditions causing green water. Green water is caused by the presence of ammonia and bright light or sunlight, not alkalinity. In a pond setting, it can be difficult to control how much sunlight is reaching the water. Usually what happens though is the ammonia levels drop low enough that the algae is starved and eventually dies out. Things usually reach an equilibrium in ponds.

Crushed coral does in fact buffer your water, but if you do not want your water more alkaline, it's best to avoid using it since it is made up of mostly calcium. It will slowly raise your pH.

STAY AWAY from pH down and other similar chemicals! They change pH values too fast and only temporarily. It's a complete waste of money.

The pH value is not that important (with most fish, as always, there are exceptions.) It is more important that you keep a stable pH than a perfect one.

 

[didz04]

Most fish can take any ph as its not too much of a problem but needs to be stable like drobbyb said. I have had some fish in a higher ph which when they prefer lower but they are not fussy and thriving well in there. However, if you're still worried you could just try putting in some bogwood. However if your tap water ph is high then it can be a problem as after every water change your ph will rise again and then the bogwood will lower it, and as you know this wouldn't be stable for your fish. So you will have to do smaller water changes but more often in the week.

 

[mark4785]

Most fish can take any ph as its not too much of a problem but needs to be stable like drobbyb said. I have had some fish in a higher ph which when they prefer lower but they are not fussy and thriving well in there. However, if you're still worried you could just try putting in some bogwood. However if your tap water ph is high then it can be a problem as after every water change your ph will rise again and then the bogwood will lower it, and as you know this wouldn't be stable for your fish. So you will have to do smaller water changes but more often in the week.

I've already run over this in my inner-thoughts; bog wood will change the water PH to about 6.5 which is out of range for goldfish and Koi.

I've since received some advise from a very experienced fish keeper at a LFS who stated that manufactured products (like PH down) are a waste of money. He said that as my tap water PH is 7.5 I should do weekly 20% water changes to lower the PH slowly. I have quit using algicides to get rid of the algae issue as it is incompatible with my UV light and carbon remover, and have reverted to using extract of barlew straw which is apparently bio-friendly.

I know that keeping the PH fluctuation to a minimum is a good goal to have in mind, but ideally I would still like to pursue achieving a PH of around 7.5. I know that algae uses up carbonic acid to thrive, which results in the water getting more alkaline, but I've also been told that algae is inhibited at a PH of 7.5 which implies it prefers alkaline water. This is purely why I want to achieve a precise PH level and would appreciate it if somebody could direct me to a product that will buffer the water to such a PH level.

Mark.

 

[drobbyb]

There are commercial made pH adjusters that would fit the bill, like the proper pH series, but I must disagree with you in that you need a precise pH. I've been keeping and breeding fish for 18 years without having to have my pH spot on anything. It just isn't needed. Fish adapt to a wide variety of conditions, as do we. These pH adjusters achieve their pH levels with phosphates, which in turn can increase the amount of algae that you have. So you trade off a specific pH for more algae. Not worth it IMO, algae can be hard enough to control without adding a chemical that will make it grow.

Just so you know, people with a low pH still have algae, and some people with a high pH have no algae at all. Algae does not care what pH you have, all it cares about is nutrients and light.

Dissolved CO2 makes carbonic acid. While it is present in some degree in all aquariums and can have the effect of lowering your pH, unless you inject it artificially, the levels aren't going to make algae grow any faster.

Your enemy here isn't your pH, it's your nutrients and light.

 

[mark4785]

Thanks for the advise Drobbyb.

I actually tested my phosphate level yesterday and found it to be between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm. I've ordered a phosphate remover product from NTLabs to deal with that. Also, I placed some extract of barley straw into the water yesterday and the green water is already clearing! Just to ensure it doesn't return I also ordered some NTLabs barley straw to place somewhere in the pond.

With regards to light, its near impossible to deplete it as the pond is not sheltered. It has around 20 floating water lilies (artificial) and 3 marginal plants (2 of them are in a floating basket) so there is a certain degree of shade but obviously not enough to keep the algae at bay.

What nutrients should I be looking to eradicate in order to stop any form of algae bloom? My guess is that I need to control the nitrate and phosphate, any others?

Thanks,

Mark.

 

[drobbyb]

Algae will use all 3 forms of nitrogen commonly found in aquarium water. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate can and will be used by algae as a primary source of food. Normally a good functioning bio-filter will take care of ammonia and nitrite, but the nitrate is usually controlled by water changes. In a pond setting, this can be a daunting task with the large volumes of water.

As to how to take care of nitrates in a pond setting, try posting on the pond section? I don't want to tell you wrong here as I only have a little experience with ponds under my belt and would hate to give you wrong advice.

The sub-forum can be found at this link.

 

[Dave Spencer]

The alkaline water has resulted in blanket weed and green water which is not controllable even by use of strong algicides. I'm sick to the back teeth of it because I think it stems from the alkaline water which I'm finding hard to lower.

This is not the case. Algae thrive, independent of pH. Many people get algal blooms in their tanks with acidic water. My tap water is so soft that it is virtually depleted of Mg. I add the Mg at water change, otherwise I suffer from algae. The plants suffer from the Mg deficiency, serving as a trigger for a bloom.

So what do I do now? Do I need to bring the KH level down? If so how do I do this? What level KH holds a PH level of 7.4 - 7.6?

Messing with the KH can be very detrimental to the health of your fish, more so than a changing pH. Search for a post by Bignose.

I know that algae uses up carbonic acid to thrive, which results in the water getting more alkaline, but I've also been told that algae is inhibited at a PH of 7.5 which implies it prefers alkaline water. This is purely why I want to achieve a precise PH level and would appreciate it if somebody could direct me to a product that will buffer the water to such a PH level.

I don`t know where you got this information from, but it is all reminiscent of something steamy and coiled down in a field by the Devil`s Satanic herd. Algae are not inhibited by the range of pH values we see in our tanks.

What nutrients should I be looking to eradicate in order to stop any form of algae bloom?

Carbon, possibly.

Here is a link to the use of barley straw that is worth a read.

http/barleyworld.org/barleystraw/Barley%20Straw%20-%20Algae%20Control%20Lit%20Anal%20Final.pdf

It would appear to be more to do with bacteria needing a carbon source. A carbon limited bacteria colony is something rarely considered on this forum, but could be highly attributable to your green water which, as Drobbyb has pointed out, needs a finite ammonia level to trigger the bloom. Supply your colony with carbon, and they will process the ammonia far more efficiently, and help to eradicate the green water.

My guess is that I need to control the nitrate and phosphate, any others?

Forget trying to starve algae. It doesn`t work. All you will do is starve your existing plants (in your pond), which will then leach ammonia and make your green water situation worse. Personally, I would replace the fake plants with real, which will look far nicer. Provide your plants with all the nutrients they require, watch them thrive and your algae woes should recede.

The nutrient requirements for plants in ponds are exactly the same for those in tanks, so have a read of the stickies in the planted section.

Everything going on in your pond suggests carbon limitation of your bacteria and plants, to me. Water lilies and such will shade the water, blocking out excessive light which will, in turn, reduce the requirement for carbon. Plants will bring their bacteria colony with them, thriving off oxygen and carbohydrates from their hosts, creating a far healthier environment for plants, and more hostile environment for the algae.

Of course, it will take a while to turn things around, but get planting and feeding.

Dave.

 

[mark4785]

Everything going on in your pond suggests carbon limitation of your bacteria and plants, to me

By 'carbon' do you mean C02? I'm a little confused so it would be brilliant if you could give an example of where carbon occurs or does not occur in my pond?

I'm not a scientist, I'm just a enthusiastic beginner.

Unfortunately, I do know real water lilies would help deter algae blooms, but all plants have a life cycle and I really don't feel like swimming in the pond to remove them when they die off. Water lilies are not my thing, but i'm all for marginals. One book seems to suggest marginals have no effect on ammonia consumption, is that right?