Another 'new' Nannostomus

Innesfan52 15

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It's being sold as N. cf. trifasciatus "Red Bull" and Nannostomus sp. "Red Bull". Clearly of the N. trifasciatus species group as were the recently imported "Lipstick Nannostomus" acquired by @anewbie and others. Behavior is described as typical N. trifasciatus behavior, which is to say, aggressive...for a small Nannostomus. WetSpot has them currently for $45 a pop. One of the N. trifasciatus variants has already been elevated to species, N. nigrotaeniatus. I suspect more to come. Many more. Same with the many forms of N. marginatus.

red bull.webp
 
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It's being sold as N. cf. trifasciatus "Red Bull" and Nannostomus sp. "Red Bull". Clearly of the N. trifasciatus species group as were the recently imported "Lipstick Nannostomus" acquired by @anewbie and others. Behavior is described as typical N. trifasciatus behavior, which is to say, aggressive...for a small Nannostomus. WetSpot has them currently for $45 a pop. One of the N. trifasciatus variants has already been elevated to species, N. nigrotaeniatus. I suspect more to come. Many more. Same with the many forms of N. marginatus.

View attachment 381246
Yea i saw that - (a) it was too expensive and (b) i prefer to avoid trifasciatus given the violence i'm seeing and (c) i'm happy with this - we can argue with some success the above is nicer looking fish but of course i can buy 3 1/2 of nice enough for one nicer; however in truth given that i'm not all that pleased with trifasciatus meanness i think 0 beats both option. They keep chasing my poor little a. uaupesi.

nnnb.webp
 
I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but for the longest time, importing pencilfish was a losing proposition. No one would buy them, and even the well known ones like marginatus stopped showing up in this country. You could get farmed beckfordi, and that's all.
And the red pencils changed that. The last time I looked at my retail online friend's shop, he had 5 different Nannostomus. Now that there's incentive, they are being found. The bleak side of that is many of these newly encountered species weren't previously collected because they were hard to get to. Destroy the rainforest and suddenly, it's no longer a barrier to exploration, and fish never before collected can be brought out for as long as they don't go extinct because of that economic growth and expansion.
There are great numbers of aquarium possible species aquarists have never seen, and may never see before they're catalogued or have gone extinct. We know way less about this planet than we think we do.

But in the meantime, I find our hobby's new interest in pencils is great, and "meeting" @Innesfan and @Newbie as pencil keepers is very informative. I'm playing with tried and true species that have long been in the hobby to hone my skills with them, but down the line I would like to try some of these expensive ones. I might need a life of crime to pay for them, but they are pretty interesting.

The high prices have an edge. If people are unable to afford the fish, then the market will dry up and they'll be lost to us. As with all really interesting, off the beaten track fish, if we can't breed them and create networks, then in the 20 year optics, they'll be gone.

Pencilfish nastiness is there. I run in fear from the splash tetra group's ways, but pencils can be managed.
 
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My wild caught Nannostomus marginatus gold from Brazil have settled in nicely to their quarantine quarters. They are a lovely fish.
They are nice - the only negative with them is they do not object to going low. The trifs while rather territorial at time and vicious little monsters do stay high. I still really like n. marilyn while not as flashy as either of mentioned species they are very well behaved and polite.
 
Pencilfish nastiness is there. I run in fear from the splash tetra group's ways, but pencils can be managed.

Agreed. For those Nannostomus species where aggression is an issue it is merely a nuisance compared to the Copella/Copeina/Pyrrhulina group. They can be ferocious.

As @anewbie stated, N. marilynae is docile. I have found N. espei, N. minimus, N. marginatus, N. harrisoni and N. digrammus to be equally easy-going. For most of the others, aggression is confined to sparring males. I have found N. beckfordi bred in Indonesia to be a handful but have not had issues with wild-caught. I've never had the Czech-bred form so cannot compare.

Then there's the N. trifasciatus group. All of them are pretty fierce little packages. Way back in the 1930s, Innes--who never met a Nannostomus he didn't like (though the five in his book were the only ones known to aquarists until the 1950s) wrote this in his entry for N. marginatus:

"Although N. trifascistus is ordinarily a peaceful fish, we have found it to delight in persecuting N. marginatus when the two species are kept together."

And this cryptic three word sentence in his entry for N. trifasciatus:

"Do not crowd."

Perhaps the most surprising--to me anyway--is the tiny, brilliantly colored N. anduzei. Not ony the smallest Nannostomus, it is also one of the ten smallest of all veterbrates. And the males are FIERCE. Aggression is confined solely among males. I had a colony of 40 and would periodically fish out a corpse or two and they were always males.
 
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Well when you say don't crowd trifascistus we are talking about less than 12 for a 48x16 inch aquarium or less than 8 for a 30x12. Of course i suppose sex matters as males are probably the ones that are territorial and i couldn't give a hint on sexing them. n. espei i ahve and they seem to do well in a large group and are a bit more interesting than some of the other species. They stay near the surface (i believe looking for insects or critters on the water surface) but unlike marilynae they spread out mostly ignoring everything including themselves. I have two red species and they seem a bit odd - never any aggression per sey (some report aggression) but mostly i find them kind of dull. One group is about 2 1/2 year old coral red (n. morthenthaleri) and the other is around 8 newer Nannostomus rubrocaudatus; in truth i would take epesi or marilyn over them any day - in fact as vicious as they might be i would take one of the more interesting trifasciatus though not one for $44.

The most i've spent on a pencil fish was the epesi - which were a bit under $20 each and hte most i've spent on tetra were the tucano and h. eilyos - i forget how much i paid for the eilyos but they have gone up a lot recently.

I really need to learn to breed the tucano, eilyos and epesi - i have a group of eiylos in a 10 (soon to be by themselves) but i suspect it will take more magic to breed them. I 'talked' to someone on reddit about eiylos and they said it was as simple as mixing the fishes with water so maybe it will happen.

I going to add a group of yummies to a 65 which is about 40% unreachable so maybe they will one day breed in there. The area is under a massive anubia that is like 18 inches long and it covers a large piece of driftwood. In the 100 (i have some tucano in there) there is an area about 6 inches deep and 12 inches wide with Süsswassertang (i was thinking those darters would do well with it since it piles up on the matten filter). Anyway I was looking at jeff's list of tetra and he has a lot that are like $40 and more for a single fish. Who pays that kind of money - that's like $800 for a group of 20.
 
An issue is many of the newly found tetras are way out there. You go to catch them, you drive. You take a small plane for a fair distance. You get in a small boat and travel a long way. Then you return to ship. It gets expensive, especially with the probable losses on the way. Until they are captive bred, the prices stay high. But in many cases, that means they only get imported once or twice, and then are gone from the hobby for good.
 
An issue is many of the newly found tetras are way out there. You go to catch them, you drive. You take a small plane for a fair distance. You get in a small boat and travel a long way. Then you return to ship. It gets expensive, especially with the probable losses on the way. Until they are captive bred, the prices stay high. But in many cases, that means they only get imported once or twice, and then are gone from the hobby for good.
Certainly true for the new $$$ 'red things' in Nannostomus. And I believe there's a concerted effort to prevent them from being captive-bred by only selling males, or pairing males with N. rubrocaudatus females.

As for N. rubrocaudatus and N. mortenthaleri, I'm not sure why prices remain fairly high--though not as high as the 'red things'. They breed like bunnies and both sexes are commonly available, though I have seen vendors who only have males and might not even know they only have males.

As for sexing N. trifasciatus, @anewbie; for the 'original' species it is indeed difficult but only males spar so that's one way to define the herd. For some of the N. trifasciatus variants there is a degree of dichromaticism between the sexes, with the males having some red adornments where the females do not. N. nigrotaeniatus is the most dramatic example and probably among the reasons why it was the first to be parsed out of the group and elevated to species. The females have no red at all. For a while, before this was known, the females were sold as a separate species, Nannostomus sp. 'black.'
 
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By the way wetspot has n. limatus which i think is a species you like but they are $26 a pop. Man these things are getting expensive. I didn't get any of those either. Oh well. There was a time when people would give these things away for free - i don't know when it was but i'm sure it existed once.
 
By the way wetspot has n. limatus which i think is a species you like but they are $26 a pop. Man these things are getting expensive. I didn't get any of those either. Oh well. There was a time when people would give these things away for free - i don't know when it was but i'm sure it existed once.

Actually, I'm not especially fond of N. limatus and I'd want to see a photo to see if it really is the species. Another vendor has them listed but the photos are of N. beckfordi. The two species look a lot alike, but N. limatus has a dotted reticulated pattern north of the primary black band. I don't dislike the species, but it's just not remarkable enough to warrant the $$$ or the tank space. BTW, dna may prove that N. limatus and N. nitidus are the same species and hence synonymous. Stan Weitzman, who described both, in later years raised that point himself.
 
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I should have posted photos for comparison. Here they are:

N. limatus:
n. limatus.webp


N. nitidus:
n. nitidus.webp


N. beckfordi
n. beckfordi.webp
 
n. tidus is a nice looking fish; do you know if behavior is the same for all three ?
I have found there's a range, behavior-wise, with N. beckfordi. The wilds I've kept were generally mild-mannered. Sure the males flare but no damage is done. Asian-bred N. beckfordi are another matter. Really aggressive in my experience. I believe @gwand has kept Czech-bred. I have not. I found N. limatus and N. nitidus a bit more feisty and male aggression was sometimes directed at other characins. As you can see from the three species, plus all the N. beckfordi variants--Rio Negro Brazilian vs coastal Brazilian vs Guyanese vs Venezuelan etc-- there's clearly an N. beckfordi 'species group' much the way there is for N. marginatus and N. trifascistus.

The iconic characin authority, Gery, wrote that he felt Nannostomus was 'actively evolving in the same manner as killies.' I'm inclined to agree. These Nannostomus 'groups' remind me of the Chromaphyosemion or A. elegans species groups in killies.
 
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Are there any 'circles' of people exchanging info on pencils the way there are with Aphyosemion?

I have Asian bred beckfordi here, and so far, the aggression levels have been fairly mild. I'll keep a close eye on them as they grow.

Wouldn't it be great if we could have access to these interesting fish in a much easier fashion? I'm into killies, and over the years, I have put a lot of time and at times money into finding them and setting up for them. I developed a bit of a crush on pencil fish when I lived in a hard water city on a shaky budget years ago, but they didn't love me back and I moved on. Now I think I could do well with them, but it took me a year and a half to find the most common one, beckfordii, and 6 years to snag a group of marginatus.

I like fish with species complexes as these beckfordi types seem to be. The subtle differences interest me. I understand why general hobbyists would see them as all the same, but that's a loss on their part. Evolution is a fantastic story and every little window we get into it is a treat, to me. I just got the GPS coordinates on my Chromaphyosemion biteniatum we caught in Benin, and my wife asked me why I was at the laptop smiling at google earth. I'd confirmed the the 2 populations I kept were from different drainages, and was nerding out about that. The fish still haven't developed full finnage yet for me to see if they are really different and if what we saw in the sunlit nets is what we'll see in aquariums. But the subtle differences are big.

I was loosely discussing a trip to pencilfish lands with a friend who is heading back that way next year. The obstacle to me is first that this would be camping and really roughing it and I'm feeling old, and second, that I'm not really into South American fish. Now I'm guzzling coffee and thinking about pencilfish diversity...
 

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