Angelfish Eggs

[fredbygrace]

I have a pair of angelfish in a 29 gallon tank that keep spawning and then eating their eggs! I would like to try removing the eggs next time they spawn, which I think is going to be very soon. My question is if they lay the eggs on a piece of slate, can I just pick up the slate and put it in another tank or will the air exposure hurt them somehow?

 

[Tolak]

That's what I've done for countless angel spawns. The less air exposure the better, I do take a second to look them over before placing them in a hatching tank.

 

[fredbygrace]

That's what I've done for countless angel spawns. The less air exposure the better, I do take a second to look them over before placing them in a hatching tank.

What do you look for?

 

[Tolak]

I look for quantity, which gives me an idea as to where I'll be with that particular spawn in a month or two in regards to tankspace, as well as sales. This also gives me an idea of the pair's health, and if it is getting to be time to rotate them out of active breeding. You can tell a lot about fertility by the pattern of the eggs, a good mature pair will spawn in nice neat lines, which means a high rate of fertility. If the neatness of the pattern declines it is also a sign that it's time to rest the pair.

 

[milly the fishkeeper]

best thing to do is remove the parents as PH or water temp wont be the same
and this would damage the eggs is it just a pair by themselves or is there other
fish in with them if its just them remove them and leave the eggs in that tank


milly

 

[Tolak]

best thing to do is remove the parents as PH or water temp wont be the same
and this would damage the eggs is it just a pair by themselves or is there other
fish in with them if its just them remove them and leave the eggs in that tank


milly

I know of nobody who breeds angels with any seriousness who does this. In its breeding years a pair is capable of producing many thousands of eggs, which means many thousands of potential dollars if you breed & sell correctly. That pair is worth more than a spawn or two, which you may lose. You do not want to risk losing the pair, I know of no breeders who do.

The pair, if by themselves, will be in at least a 20 gallon tank, if not a 29. With newly swimming fry I do 50% to 80% water changes daily, depending on the size of the spawn, along with wiping & siphoning the bottom of the tank. Siphoning the botom of a bare tank with tiny fry is a trick that takes practice, the smaller the tank, within reason, the easier it is. I hatch in 2.5 & 5 gallon tanks, I have used 10's but the tank size makes maintenance tedious.

Maintenance on a larger tank is an issue, as well as the water volume itself when dealing with fry that are not parent raised. When a pair raises fry, they herd them together, away from danger, and towards food. In a larger tank with no guidance they have a hard time finding food in those first few critical days, meaning fry losses due to starvation and using more energy than they are consuming finding food.

Anti-fungal and anti-bacterial additives used in hatching also need to be taken into consideration when pulling & hatching a spawn. These get expensive in a larger tank, the more water to treat the more expensive it becomes. The pH, hardness, and TDS are going to be different in a tank with these additives, as long as the temperature is within a degree or two there is no diference in hatching or survival rate in the hundreds of spawns I have pulled over the years.

 

[the biffster]

best thing to do is remove the parents as PH or water temp wont be the same
and this would damage the eggs is it just a pair by themselves or is there other
fish in with them if its just them remove them and leave the eggs in that tank


milly

I know of nobody who breeds angels with any seriousness who does this. In its breeding years a pair is capable of producing many thousands of eggs, which means many thousands of potential dollars if you breed & sell correctly. That pair is worth more than a spawn or two, which you may lose. You do not want to risk losing the pair, I know of no breeders who do.

The pair, if by themselves, will be in at least a 20 gallon tank, if not a 29. With newly swimming fry I do 50% to 80% water changes daily, depending on the size of the spawn, along with wiping & siphoning the bottom of the tank. Siphoning the botom of a bare tank with tiny fry is a trick that takes practice, the smaller the tank, within reason, the easier it is. I hatch in 2.5 & 5 gallon tanks, I have used 10's but the tank size makes maintenance tedious.

Maintenance on a larger tank is an issue, as well as the water volume itself when dealing with fry that are not parent raised. When a pair raises fry, they herd them together, away from danger, and towards food. In a larger tank with no guidance they have a hard time finding food in those first few critical days, meaning fry losses due to starvation and using more energy than they are consuming finding food.

Anti-fungal and anti-bacterial additives used in hatching also need to be taken into consideration when pulling & hatching a spawn. These get expensive in a larger tank, the more water to treat the more expensive it becomes. The pH, hardness, and TDS are going to be different in a tank with these additives, as long as the temperature is within a degree or two there is no diference in hatching or survival rate in the hundreds of spawns I have pulled over the years.

over here it is common practice to remove the adult fish if they eat there eggs this just to make certain the
there is fry from the spawning the adult fish are removed the air is turned up so it runs past the eggs and methylene blue is added to the water to stop the eggs from getting fungus once hatched they are fed on
newly hatched brine shrimp or bosmiden

 

[Tolak]

Please explain to me the advantages of moving a breeding pair of angels vs moving the spawn to a hatching container. Honestly, if this worked better I, along with the dozen or so angel breeders I keep in contact with locally as well as around the US would love to know. My 30 tank setup is average, the largest local breeder was running 300 40 gallon tanks, he recently retired. It was his full time job for many years, selling 8,000 to 10,000 angels monthly. If moving pairs was a better idea he would have picked up on it long ago, as would have many other breeders.

Fungus has been shown to be a secondary problem, taking over after bacteria affect the spawn. Bacterial infections multiply many times faster than fungal infections, this is the reason anti-bacterials are added along with meth blue in successful breeding operations.

In aquatics in general, and breeding in particular, there are areas where folks disagree, or have different methods that work better for them than the next guy. Moving pairs, to mine or any other breeder's knowledge, is not one of those debatable things, it ranks up there with feeding fry bbs as a trade standard to leave breeding pairs alone, only moving when absolutely needed.

 

[the biffster]

Please explain to me the advantages of moving a breeding pair of angels vs moving the spawn to a hatching container. Honestly, if this worked better I, along with the dozen or so angel breeders I keep in contact with locally as well as around the US would love to know. My 30 tank setup is average, the largest local breeder was running 300 40 gallon tanks, he recently retired. It was his full time job for many years, selling 8,000 to 10,000 angels monthly. If moving pairs was a better idea he would have picked up on it long ago, as would have many other breeders.

Fungus has been shown to be a secondary problem, taking over after bacteria affect the spawn. Bacterial infections multiply many times faster than fungal infections, this is the reason anti-bacterials are added along with meth blue in successful breeding operations.

In aquatics in general, and breeding in particular, there are areas where folks disagree, or have different methods that work better for them than the next guy. Moving pairs, to mine or any other breeder's knowledge, is not one of those debatable things, it ranks up there with feeding fry bbs as a trade standard to leave breeding pairs alone, only moving when absolutely needed.

what do you do if they eat there fry or eggs ? thats why we move pairs its less stress on the adults than on the eggs
over here we onlly pay £1.70 to£1.85 of small angels and between about £15.00 to £20.00 for a breeding pair
i my self do remove pairs and have hacthed hundreds of fry i used to sell them to the local shop for 85p a fish
cheers biff

 

[poopsydrew]

Im with Tolak on this one. I would never think of moving any of my pairs. Thats a risk im not willing to take like Tolak pointed out.

Who cares if you lose a spawn or two? A lot of breeders work very hard and are very patient to get a certain pair and when you do, the last thing you want to do is stress them out by moving them. Especially considering pairs can spawn as much as every week.

The best thing IMO is to have the parents raise the fry if you can. I got lucky and had a pair that raised their own spawns and not only were they the healthiest spawns ever but also the largest and fastest growing. Not to mention the bahvior is breathtaking.

Unfortuantley, doesnt sound like an option for the OP, so just artificially hatch them with an airstone and some antifungus meds.

Drew

 

[the biffster]

but that's only my opinion its what is ever suited to the individual and we found that this way works
better for us i have moved pairs form one tank to the next and within 24 hours they have spawned again


biff

 

[poopsydrew]

but that's only my opinion its what is ever suited to the individual and we found that this way works
better for us i have moved pairs form one tank to the next and within 24 hours they have spawned again


biff

If it works for you great, you will be the only person I know to do so but each to their own. Must suck having to net the pairs out every spawn, maybe im just lazy.

Drew

 

[Tolak]

How do you determine stress on eggs? I’ll tell you how to determine stress on breeding pairs, it is when they don’t spawn on a regular schedule, or stop spawning all together. Moving fish causes stress, moving pairs throws them off schedule. When you put them in another tank, they have to settle in, reform territories, and feel comfortable before spawning. Stress also lowers the immune response in fish, conditioning, and keeping pairs conditioned also includes limiting stress. Tank position for breeders is also taken into account in any good breeding program, you want the pairs on upper racks, to limit stress. Legs & feet flying by creates more stress than an upper body or head going by. If legs create stress, what do you think moving the pair every couple of weeks will do?

Cheap breeding pairs are inexpensive, good breeding pairs are not. Take a look at the price of quality, non-lfs fish, these are what you will want to base your breeding program off of; http/www.angelsplus.com/pairs.htm

Steve has reasonable prices, Mellow Aquatics is in the process of moving, their prices are near double. You don’t take chances with pairs, taking chances with spawns is much less risky to any breeding program. You breeding stock is the key to your success, without them you are back at square one.

I personally hatch & sell hundreds of angels monthly, you are the first person I have encountered that has better success moving the pairs rather than the spawn. To each their own, but it may be to your advantage to look into moving spawns instead, here’s a good place to do some research; http/www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php

You have more than a handful of angel breeders there, who are all willing to share info. By all means don’t go only by my word, do some serious research as I have done over the years, there is often a better mousetrap if you look hard enough. I am constantly tweaking & refining my breeding program, there is always more to learn.