Ammonia Keeps Spiking

[Queen Bee]

I am a month old newbe and I am having difficulty getting my tank to settle down. After reading other posts, I know that I have added too many fish too soon. I have also not let my tank cycle properly. Didn't know about cycling before I bought the fish, and no one at the store informed me. I don't know if I am doing things right or not.

I have a 10 gallon tank, filter, airstone and plastic plants. No heater yet as the temperature is at 78. The tank ran for 1 week before I had to get my 1 guppy out of the 1 gallon tank and put him in the 10. ( Had originally started with 3 guppies and 2 died hence the quick transplant) I now have 5 guppies, 2 red coral platys, and 1 fairly large snail. I also had 1 extra guppy and platy, but they died. Don't know if it matters, but one of the guppies is pregnant.

I tested the tap water and the ph here is 7.4 The ph in my tank remains at a steady 7.8 Nitrate and Nitrite have always read 0

2 days after adding 2 extra platy and 2 guppies, my ammonia level read at a 1. After changing the water, it lowered to .25

A couple of days later, (when the 2 fish died) the level was back at 1. It remains there even though I have been changing 20% of the water every couple of days. Even after I change it, I take a reading and it is still at 1.

The first couple of weeks, I was adding some waste control and letting it sit in the tank for 2 hours, then changed the water. Added cycle and water conditioner. I also put a little aquarium salt in the water.

Since I am now doing water changes every day or every couple of days should I keep using the waste control and cycle? I'm not sure if I should be subjecting the fish to too many chemicals. I don't want to lose any more. They have names and personalities.

Also, should I be wiping the slimy stuff off the plastic plants? It is not thick or too visible. Would adding a real plant help to lower my levels?

I want to add some large oyster shells to the tank for decor. I rinsed them off when we got home from the restaurant. Then I put them in a bucket and filled it with boiling water and let them sit for 2 days. I repeated the procedure and then let them dry on paper towel. Are they safe to add to the tank? I really don't need to get myself into anymore problems than I have.

Would appreciate any help here

 

[minxfishy]

Hi, have a good read of this thread: http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

Unfortunately you are going to have make a lot of frequent water changes, even once you have the ammonia under control, you will then have the issue of the nitrite.

I would advise a 50% water change, leave for an hour and test again, if it is still at 1, do another 50% water change.

I would not bother to add the cycle products, they are a waste of time and money as they effectively do nothing to help the filter cycle.

The only thing you need to add to the water is dechlorinator.

Providing you match closely the water temp in the tank with the new water going in, this will not stress the fish much, the most important thing is to keep the ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible, at least 0.25 at the highest.

 

[Queen Bee]

Thanks for the advice. I have some water sitting to get to room temperature and then I will try the 50% water change. Appreciate the help!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well don't fret too much Queen Bee, you're in the right place now asking for help and taking advice, we'll do everything we can to help you get through this as smoothly as possible.

No one will tell you cycling with fish is easy and we can't promise you that you won't loose anymore fish, but we can tell you what to do to minimise the danger to the fish and from there it's a case of following the plan and keeping your fingers crossed.

I would definitely dispense with the extra chemicals; all you need is dechlorinator, why are you leaving the water to sit? You don’t need to do this you can run water straight from the tap, add dechlorinator to it and add it to the tank.

There’s two main reasons why people used to leave the water to sit, now neither of them are necessary, the first one is to match the temps, on a standard 30% water change with water straight from the tap the temp will not drop by more than 2 degC, Fish are perfectly capable of handling this small temp drop, it’s no worse than if it rains on the lake or river that they would live in in the wild. The second reason why people used to leave water out is for the chlorine in it to evaporate, now we use dechlor so no need to wait, in addition to this a lot of water companies now also use chloramine in the water which is a combination of chlorine and ammonia, this won’t evaporate by itself and needs to be removed with dechlor. So you can see there’s no reason to have buckets of water sat around the house, I’d be forever kicking them over if I did that, and can you imagine the extra space you’d need to do it for a really big tank!

You will need to get a heater, that purchase should be on your list fairly soon, while it may be warm during the day if you looked at the temp in the middle of the night you might be a nasty surprise!! Also its summer now so the general temps are warmer, when the season changes you’ll find you definitely need a heater.

First question for you, what test kit are you using? Is it liquid based or paper strips and what brand is it made by? Can you also run a series of tests on your tap water and let us know the results, it’s like a baseline for us so we know what you have to work with

As you have gleaned so far your goal now is to keep the ammonia and nitrite as low as possible, you do this with daily water changes, the max they should get to is 0.25ppm, but that doesn’t mean 0.25 is safe, if you can get them lower then you should do so.

The slimy stuff on the fake plants is probably a form of bacteria/algae, feel free to wipe it off.

In theory real plants would help, the preferred food source for aquarium plants is ammonia so they would take in some of the ammonia that the filter isn’t yet processing, however the effect is negligible and you’d need quite a lot of plants to make a tangible difference. If you like the look of real plants and want them then go ahead and get a few bunches, but don’t expect it to dramatically change things.

I would not advise putting oyster shells in, Shells are basically made of calcium, adding them to the tank could send your pH through the roof which is not what you want!

 

[Queen Bee]

Thanks for all the help. I've done 2 water changes yesterday and one already today. The level is at .25 I will do another change tonight and keep monitoring.

I am using the liquid drops to test the water and the brand name is API. I tested the tap water and the ph level was 7.4 and the ammonia was .25 Nitrate & Nitrite were 0.

Fish don't seem too stressed out with the frequent water changes.

Good point about the oyster shells. They were about to go in when I got your message. Another problem avoided. Thanks.

Forgot to mention the standing water. I put a little cube of aquarium salt in the water for changing the tank. If I let it sit, it will disolve into the water, then I add the conditioner before I change the tank. Lots of pails around, which I am starting to trip over. Can't believe I am getting rid of furniture to make room for pails of water!

 

[waterdrop]

Good, you are following Miss Wiggles excellent advice. Couple of things:

1) You don't need the aquarium salt. In fact, its bad for your guppies. You can keep it on your shelf as it may be useful as a medicine for a couple of fish maladies, but it should not be in the tank under normal conditions.

2) I'll just try to put a different way, the thing that MW has already said: You were doing 20% water changes but still finding some ammonia at levels higher than 0.25ppm (all the way up at 1.0) and MW recommended that you do a 50% change and potentially another 50% after an hour. The take-home message is that both percentage and frequency of your water changes should be varied by you... based on whether ammonia and nitrite (same scale for both) are staying between zero and 0.25 on your API tests. The most important thing is for the levels of those two poisons to stay down there between zero and 0.25 and that is more important than any other worries about these larger percentage changes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Queen bee, you don't need lots of buckets sitting around. One clean bucket and a sink with hot and cold water taps is all you really need. Mix the water to match the tank temperature well enough that you can't tell them apart by dipping your hand in it. When the temperature is that close, treat the water with dechlorinator and pour it into the tank. Continue with the next bucket full until the tank is full again. The dechlorinators that are made today work almost instantly once they are mixed into the water properly. I use my gravel vac as a stirring stick to mix the dechlor thoroughly into the water because I am a bit paranoid. Lots of folks will do a water change with a python which means mixing the dechlorinator right in the tank itself. Very large water changes can be done quite often if they are needed and you watch what you are doing. People with discus, one of the harder fish to look after because they are picky about their water, change 30 to 50% of the water every day to keep the water clean for the fish. It does no harm and it keeps their discus healthy.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah no need to use the salt (although WD I query your point about it being bad for guppies considering they can be acclimitised to full strngth salt water quite easily?!) for general use.

I did a big write up on salt a few weeks ago, will dig it out for you.

write up on salt

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2061369

 

[waterdrop]

OK, point taken. She's showing her salt.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Queen Bee]

I read on another site dedicated to guppies that they actually do like a little salt. It protects them against getting sick. It said that they don't like rain water for the fact that there is so little salt in the water. That was the kind of water I used in the first tank I had and lost 2 guppies before week end. There is still one of my original guppies in my tank today. He appears to be doing great. Who knows, the guy who wrote that site may or may not know everything there is to know about guppies. I will check out MW link to salt to do more research. Thanks.

Was a long weekend of doing water changes and working 12 hours days. I did a full test of the tank this morning, (I only had time to test ammonia and change water this weekend). The PH is at 8, Nitrite is 0, Ammonia is 1 ( Does drop to .25 after water change, then rises again) The Nitrate is between 0 & 5, it is just slightly darker than the 0, but not as dark as the 5. Is that safe? I know nitrite is bad, but should the nitrate be rising?

Well, had morning coffee, getting ready to change water again. Not frustrated yet, but very determined to get this thing right. Already planning what to do when I get a second tank in a couple of weeks. Going to fish store today. What do you folks think of ammonia chips? Are they worth the money? I hesitate using them as my schedule near the end of the week will be all 12 hour days and not much time to closely monitor the fish and the tank.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

The link about salt should pretty much explain what you’ve read on other websites.

No don’t use ammonia chips, what they will do is suck up all the ammonia which means the bacteria can’t get any so they don’t grow, you’d effectively be killing off your cycle if you got some. Doing water changes is a more effective control method as the bacteria will consume what they can and you’re just removing as much of the excess as possible via water changes.

The nitrate rising is just a sign that this is all progressing, it works something like this - 1ppm of ammonia is consumed by the ABacs who then produce around 3ppm of nitrite, this is then consumed by the NBacs who produce around 9ppm of nitrate. I can never remember the exact ratio’s but it’s something around that, anyway you can see how it multiplies so sometimes you might not see a noticeable drop in ammonia or nitrite but the nitrate starts to climb. Experiments show that nitrate levels of up to 100ppm are pretty safe so don’t worry too much over this. Goal is just to keep ammonia and nitrite as low as is possible.

 

[Queen Bee]

Been doing 50% water changes for one week now. Nitrate, Nitrite at 0, Ammonia at 1 and ph at 8. Still doing changes and following the advice that everyone has given me.

I added a sponge filter to the airstone. I see them in all the LFS. It is suppose to breed more bacteria faster since it is getting lots of air. It's called a Hydro Sponge filter. Any opinions on this one?

 

[OldMan47]

A sponge filter is a good place to grow some bacteria but don't remove the filter that you have already started. The sponge is brand new and has no bacteria yet so the existing filter is still your best bet in the short term. I have 2 tanks that use sponge filters but they have a serious down side. They plug up easier than a typical canister and they are only biological and particulate filters. If you need a chemical filter, like after a medication treatment, they have no place to put the chemical media.

 

[Queen Bee]

I thought I would use both filters, as I figured the more bacteria I could get in the tank, better for getting rid of ammonia. I have been doing the water changes, but I never thought about rinsing the filter each time as I was doing 2 a day. Yesterday, I rinsed the sponge filter in water and was surprised to see so much reddish dust coming out. Is this bacteria, or waste?

Something has changed. Lost some fish, down to 4 guppies and 2 red coral platy. I bought a 29 Gallon tank and have set it up. Moved some things (Not filter yet though) to the bigger tank. I am going to move the fish over. Even though it is not even close to being cycled, there is more room for the fish to have the ammonia diluted. This should not cause them as much damage as being in the smaller tank. Am I on the right path of thinking here?

Did an ammonia test today. It is between .25 & .50. Things are looking up here. Should I continue the moving of the fish or leave them in the tank that is almost cycled?

 

[OldMan47]

As long as you move your filters when you move the fish, things should be OK. Any bacteria that you have will move with the filters and the larger tank will give you more dilution factor. Most of the stuff that came out of your sponge was probably just dirt. Unless you got carried away squeezing and rinsing the sponge it probably kept most of the bacteria that it is starting to build. Loose dirt is easily removed from a sponge while the bacteria sticks to it better. It can be removed by too much vigorous scrubbing but that is seldom a problem for fish keepers.