Ammonia Chaos

[trickyspark]

I am using a TetraTest Laborett test kit which I periodically test my two 30 gallon tanks, and my one 10 gallon tank with. I most commonly check for Ammonia and Nitrites.

In one 30 gallon I have 8 Harlequin Rasbora, 5 corydora (green-gold), 2 what seem to be giant panda corydoras ( I am unsure, they are two to three times the size of the regular corydoras, and colored up like a panda corydora), 1 Tiger Pleco, 1 Bristlenose Pleco, and 3 regular orange Platies. The Ammonia always shows up as almost 0 mg/l in this tank, which is the lowest reading on the test kit. I change the filter once a month or so.

In my other 30 gallon tank I have, 10 Ghost Shrimp, 3 Dwarf Gourami, 2 orange Platy, and 1 Bristlenose Pleco. For the past week I have been getting greater than 5.0 mg/l in this tank for Ammonia. 5.0 is listed as highly fatal. My fish show no signs of gasping for air, and eat normally. The shrimp should have died at 0.25 mg/l according to the test kit. I have done 50% water changes every day for the last week, with what appears to be only a tiny, tiny, tiny drop in Ammonia. It's still around 5.0 mg/l.

I am unsure what the problem is. I made sure to test both tanks using the same temp water, adding reagents to the test tube precisely the same, using the same exact test tube prerinsing each time with bottled water. I am using the Tetra brand chlorine remover when adding water. I use about 40% more than it says, being as we are at the end of the water line and periodically the water department actually comes out and purges the line for excess chlorine. I have had no problems when adding water in the past. I have tested the water I am adding for ammonia just out of curiousity. It tests fine.

For the problem tank,I feed the fish only what the eat in the first five minutes or so. I drop a shrimp pellet or 2 in the tank once a day for the bottom feeders. I also drop one Algae wafer in for the pleco. This tank is about 6-7 months old. I have had no trouble up until the last week. The filter has been replaced once a month.

The tank that is fine, I feed a lot of food too. I allow a decent amount to hit the bottom for the corydoras. This tank gets alot more food, but is fine. This tank is over a year old, nearing 2 years old.



Why is it the one tank, with smaller and fewer fish is the one with what appears to be lethal amounts of ammonia? Why are the shrimp not dropping like flies, and why are the fish behaving normally? I am so confused. I have eliminated the test kit as the culprit, testing both tanks under the exact same conditions. I have vacuumed the gravel in the problem tank every day for a week, changing 30-50% of the water each time.

I am so stumped.

 

[Mikaila31]

Are you using test strips or a liquid test kit?

 

[JenCliBee]

as above plus when you say you replace the filter each mnth what do you mean ?? if your replacing the filter media with brand new then your getting rid of the bacteria needed 2 break down the ammonia each time they are replaced

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum TrickySpark. The "laborett" looks like it is a liquid type based on the google results I got so the readings are probably right.
If you are truly replacing the filter media every month, stop doing that. Filter media should be rinsed in used tank water and then re-used. To get the ammonia levels down you need to take quick extreme action. What that means is to do a few 50% water changes, one every hour, until the ammonia levels are well below 1 ppm (1mg/l). At that point you could ease off to doing a 50% every day to get and keep the levels below 0.25 ppm.

 

[trickyspark]

I'm not sure if by filter media you mean the blue and white carbon filled cartridges.

That is what I am replacing in each tank.

The tank with no problem came with a second filter, it is an off white, rough, spongy-type material.

The one with problems only has the blue and white sided replacement cartridge. The box just labels them as
"Tetra FIlter Cartridges" with "Timestrip" to tell you when they're due for replacement.

The rough spongy filter has never been replaced. I have rinsed it off when it got a little cruddy one or two times. Should I buy one of these for my second tank? I got the tank as a kit, came with pump, heater, etc. I did wonder why it didn't have the second filter, my other tank had a special shaped filter that went in behind the carbon filter. This one doesn't appear to have the little groove in it that the odd little filter would go into.

My test kit is indeed a liquid type. I had trouble with strips. I would open the bottle and remove one, test the water, and throw it away. The next time I opened the bottle, all strips would show they had been used. I bought a second bottle, removed a strip with tweezers, and next time they were all still activated. I made sure the lids were on super tight and no water had gotten in.


Also, the white and blue carbon filters that go in the problem free tank have a hard, plastic frame around them. The ones for the second tank do not have the plastic frame, they tend to collapse after a few weeks. I'd thought about putting some drinking straws or something across them as a kind of reinforcement like the plastic frame the others have.

I was googling "filter media" and I came across http/www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=215

It appears the media I am replacing is known as mechanical media. I am not replacing the bio media. I don't have any in the tank apparently. I was told the gravel would be sufficient. I guess they got me there =(.
Thanks for the replies too.

 

[Syphoniera]

Hi, trickyspark!

I've no idea how your filter's set up, but, (speaking as One Who Knows Nothing,) until an expert like OldMan47 shows up:
the disposable cartridges are not only expensive but not a good idea.
If you can manage a second filter with sponges, super - if you can substitute media in the filter in the problem tank, wonderful.
A lot of people actually only run carbon when a problem arises or med. removal is required - and in this case it appears not to be fixing any problems, but creating them instead.
If you do get into solid-type, permanent filter material, such as the rings or balls, avoid plastic - nitrifying bacteria doesn't prosper on it.
But for that size of tank - again speaking as a non-expert - a chunk or two of filter sponge crammed in there works wonders.
I have to jury-rig a lot, being impoverished, and I like a bit of finer mechanical filtration, so stuff cheap filter wool in the top of my HOBs, although people who use things like pillow stuffing would be the official source for info on that.
And if I do want carbon in one of my HOBs, I just add an carbon bag of appropriate size, but most of mine are Aquaclear or a similar type made to hold these.
However, I've no idea if the filter you have is adaptable to other methods, and hopefully Someone Who Knows will appear shortly.

Your gravel does hold a vast amount of beneficial bacteria throughout its various and myriad surfaces, (as does anything else non-plastic in your tank,) and whole-tank nitrification is important.
However, the bacteria in your filter is fed a constant supply of oxygenated 'bacteria food' as the nutrients produced by your fish are constantly running through it, so attains a high level over time, which hogs a proportionate amount of the available 'food supply', depriving bacteria elsewhere to that extent.
The removal of the repository of a high level of such bacteria on a monthly basis allows a long enough time for a high level of bacteria to develop in the filter, shifting the balance toward filtration dependency, which is then abruptly shifted back again, when this is removed, to be thrown back on the nitrifying bacteria throughout your tank, which have been suppressed due to the filtration bacteria having the nutritional advantage and propagating to the level of the available food supply.
With the new cartridge replacement, this cycle begins again, to be repeated endlessly.
This results in a continual unbalancing which can result in a high ammonia level.
At a low PH, ammonia is actually ammonium, which is not toxic, which could explain why a reading of ammonia which should be generally fatal is having no effect.
However, nitrites are still toxic at even low levels, and in such an imbalanced situation may potentially be produced at any time in sufficient quantities to stress or kill your fish.
I'm guessing you have few or no live plants in that problem tank, as aquatic plants typically prefer ammonium to nitrates and will suck up an amount - depending on the plant type/health/growth rate, of course - proportionate to their mass.
(I also vaguely recall reading of something which can produce a falsely high ammonia reading, although I'm darned if I recall what it was, and can only hope it rings a bell in someone else.)
If, in example, one was converting to the Walstad (gravel-capped earth-based, heavily planted) method, while many people run carbon over the first few months, filter sponges are eliminated and mechanical filtration frequently cleaned/changed to prevent a build-up of filter bacteria and subsequent dependency, which would deprive plants and the whole-tank nitrification secondary to this, as a different method of water purifying is used.
In the typical tank reliant on filtration bacteria, sponges or other rough-surfaced filter media are an essential part of the ecological equation, and you are very right to feel that the installation of a filter sponge would be important in the elimination of the problem currently experienced in your tank.
Personally, I also feel that the addition of as many healthy plants as feasible would also act to promote the health and safety of your fish, and something which you may wish to consider as well.
Hope this helps.

 

[drobbyb]

I have 2 of those cartridge type filters. If you replace them every month then you are going to be in an unending cycle. They are expensive and replacing them is totally useless. Marineland filters have a Bio-Wheel and some say that the wheels hold enough bacteria to keep your cycle going. I am not one of them. I have killed fish in the past by changing the cartridges even with the bio-wheel.

It's best just to rinse those inserts in old tank water during your waterchange and re-use them. (I sure don't want to pay for those expensive inserts and it keeps them out of the landfill making you green!)

 

[OldMan47]

It sounds like you have one of the new whisper series filters. The cartridge can and should be rinsed and re-used. Others have already jumped in to say that there are alternative schemes that would work. I am using one of those new whisper filters and it is working out fine. I ignore the little red indicator and rinse out the cartridge whenever the filter flow drops off but I will not replace that cartridge ever if I don't have to. The problem free tank has a biological filter that you are not throwing away so that is why it is problem free. You probably will see some small changes in ammonia when you change the cartridge in that tank but with the other filter present it never gets away from you.