Am I Underfiltered?

[golfzzin]

?

 

[StandbySetting]

everyone over stocks their tank mate, i wouldnt worry about what people say about strict stocking levels. As long as you can filter it, the water stays in good condition and the fish dont look jam packed in like sardines you will be ok. Common sense prevails above all and your plan seems fine.

I have to agree with this, stocking calculators and these rules of thumb don't work because they don't take the actual excretion of ammonia into account, most ammonia excretion is a result of osmoregulation, so a big factor of this will be how efficiently a certain species is able to respire, more active species will respire more to create more energy so will excrete more ammonia.

As long as your water quality is good, the fish aren't too big for the tank and they get on well then I see no problems, I've stocked by eye for many years, experience and common sense should always provail over some flimsy rule, the 1 inch per gallon rule of thumb was originally intended for new set ups to aid beginners.

 

[shelaghfishface]

as a member for a few yrs, i have to say that that is singularly the worst piece of advise i have ever read....a goldfish looks ok in a trifle dish, but its not right is it?

if no one is to worry about 'what people say' ( by which i suppose you mean the excellent advice that many members spend a huge amount of time dishing out) then why join and stay with the forum ?

over filtering is always a good thing, but that wont make massive overstocking anymore acceptable.


edited due to my epic fail at multi tasking

 

[eaglesaquarium]

as a member for a few yrs, i have to say that that is singularly the worst piece of advise i have ever read....a goldfish looks ok in a trifle dish, but its not right is it?

if no one is to worry about 'what people say' ( by which i suppose you mean the excellent advice that many members spend a huge amount of time dishing out) then why join and stay with the forum ?

over filtering is always a good thing, but that wont make massive overstocking anymore acceptable.


edited due to my epic fail at multi tasking

Well, I think there is "overstocked" and then there is OVERSTOCKED. For example, someone who has stocked a few extra full grown fish above the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule is "overstocked" but more than likely won't cause a problem. Conversely, someone who has stocked 1 inch of JUVENILE fish per gallon is not technically overstocked, but if no change is made, the tank will soon become overstocked beyond repair and disaster is in the offing.


I think that the 1 inch per gallon rule is a good one, but that an established tank can actually push this a little further.

 

[OldMan47]

That tank is not over stocked. By my own estimation it is fairly lightly stocked. You should not need to worry about the filter capacity unless you expect it to remove every scrap of fish waste. I always figured that was why I do gravel vacs and was not the filter's job. Unlike Shelaugh, I figure that an established tank can easily be taken to twice the new tank limit of an inch per gallon.
I would be very careful about adding any more otocinclus. Although I just love those guys, I never seem to have enough algae in my tanks to keep them alive and they fail due to starvation if you rely on manual feedings. Instead I would look to things like your neons or rasboras as the thing to substitute for the fish you intend to remove.

 

[raptorrex]

as a member for a few yrs, i have to say that that is singularly the worst piece of advise i have ever read....a goldfish looks ok in a trifle dish, but its not right is it?

if no one is to worry about 'what people say' ( by which i suppose you mean the excellent advice that many members spend a huge amount of time dishing out) then why join and stay with the forum ?

over filtering is always a good thing, but that wont make massive overstocking anymore acceptable.


edited due to my epic fail at multi tasking

well put! it has to be noted that more and more advice, here, is given by less and less experienced members. now thats not to say there are not, very, experienced people posting. but the fewer there are, the less breadth (of experience) is passed on. what can happen then is people follow a much narrower path.

we can say the tank in question is in no way over-filtered, quite the contrariety, even as far as the makers are concerned its considerably under filtered..those with experience of life will know, most makers are not prone to underestimating their products abilities, its usually the opposite.

 

[Tizer]

I suppose you could consider it bad advice when you take into account peoples differing degrees of common sense. I forget some people lack any of it.

There are less and less experienced members on this forum giving advice because eventually they become sick and tired of replying to the same old threads over and over, which is brought on by the increased number of new users/members. The good advice becomes diluted. It cant be helped really, but with each new group of users there are a small number who are educated enough to provide some good advice and some which learn very fast, which keeps things ticking over month to month.

Lets not forget, nobody is getting paid on here.

 

[raptorrex]

I suppose you could consider it bad advice when you take into account peoples differing degrees of common sense. I forget some people lack any of it.

There are less and less experienced members on this forum giving advice because eventually they become sick and tired of replying to the same old threads over and over, which is brought on by the increased number of new users/members. The good advice becomes diluted. It cant be helped really, but with each new group of users there are a small number who are educated enough to provide some good advice and some which learn very fast, which keeps things ticking over month to month.

Lets not forget, nobody is getting paid on here.

again, well put.
the only addition i would add is that many experienced members stopped posting because, quite apart from the monotony of repeated questions, they were being ignored, even corrected by those with little or no knowledge. now for some, experienced members this is ego heaven, as the number that do listen expends the ranks of their views.but for others the effort to help was just, no longer worth it.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That tank is not over stocked. By my own estimation it is fairly lightly stocked. You should not need to worry about the filter capacity unless you expect it to remove every scrap of fish waste. I always figured that was why I do gravel vacs and was not the filter's job. Unlike Shelaugh, I figure that an established tank can easily be taken to twice the new tank limit of an inch per gallon.
I would be very careful about adding any more otocinclus. Although I just love those guys, I never seem to have enough algae in my tanks to keep them alive and they fail due to starvation if you rely on manual feedings. Instead I would look to things like your neons or rasboras as the thing to substitute for the fish you intend to remove.

How do you define "established" 6 months, 12 months, 2 years?

 

[Tizer]

How do you define "new"?

 

[golfzzin]

That tank is not over stocked. By my own estimation it is fairly lightly stocked. You should not need to worry about the filter capacity unless you expect it to remove every scrap of fish waste. I always figured that was why I do gravel vacs and was not the filter's job. Unlike Shelaugh, I figure that an established tank can easily be taken to twice the new tank limit of an inch per gallon.
I would be very careful about adding any more otocinclus. Although I just love those guys, I never seem to have enough algae in my tanks to keep them alive and they fail due to starvation if you rely on manual feedings. Instead I would look to things like your neons or rasboras as the thing to substitute for the fish you intend to remove.

Thanks bud

I only thought i would need to upgrade the pump as i wanted to add more media to the filter, and i wanted to ensure the water would still be pulled through at a good flow rate. I don't rely on the filter to clean the tank, i gravel vac twice a week to do this.

I had intended to get a few more otocinclus as i had read they should be in groups of 5. But if having more would mean they will suffer then i will stay away.

Thanks again

Matt

 

[raptorrex]

That tank is not over stocked. By my own estimation it is fairly lightly stocked. You should not need to worry about the filter capacity unless you expect ied filter in nothing more than a fully cycled filter.t to remove every scrap of fish waste. I always figured that was why I do gravel vacs and was not the filter's job. Unlike Shelaugh, I figure that an established tank can easily be taken to twice the new tank limit of an inch per gallon.
I would be very careful about adding any more otocinclus. Although I just love those guys, I never seem to have enough algae in my tanks to keep them alive and they fail due to starvation if you rely on manual feedings. Instead I would look to things like your neons or rasboras as the thing to substitute for the fish you intend to remove.

How do you define "established" 6 months, 12 months, 2 years?

usually, a tank is said to be "MATURE/ESTABLISHED" at six months. talking of filters is a bit different. whilst your filter is cycled at the end of your cycle, it would not become "established" until your stock had remained constant for a month or so. though, personally, i would say only tanks get "MATURE/ESTABLISHED". filters get cycled, then balanced to your stock.. the term Mature/established media has always taxed me. though i know what is meant by it here. as we only have enough bacteria, in our filter, to clean the fish we have. so, it seams to me, an established filter is a fully cycled filter, however old it is. that's as i see it anyway.

 

[StandbySetting]

There is no accurate time frame for mature/established, but a mature tank is one that has a filter colony capable of withstanding conditions that would normally effect a new colony, as a bacterial colony matures, the more resistant to adverse conditions it becomes.

I'd just like to talk about the whole over-filtering theory also, regardless of what filter you use on your set up there will always be the same number of bacteria in there providing your stocking doesn't change, a bigger filter would normally just mean bigger volume and larger circulation.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

SBS,

Could you give an example of what event might affect a "immature" colony of bacteria, but not so much a "mature" one?




I get the "overfiltration" idea. I have a 56 gallon tank coming, and got a filter that is rated to 70 gallons. Not because I plan to overstock it, but because I want to have a higher flow to minimize pockets of ammonia, etc. I also have a sponge filter rated to 50 gallons that I can add as well, if necessary, to aid increasing circulation for plants.

 

[StandbySetting]

Chlorine is less likely to affect a mature colony as they can build up resistances to it, which begs the question: If chlorine supposedly kills filter bacteria then why is it still present in tap water? The answer being either: They've become resistant too it, or there is only enough Chlorine present to kill some of the bacteria present. The same applies to other compounds/elements which may affect the bacteria.

Over filtration is only good for one thing in my eyes, and that is what you stated, additional circulation for plants etc.