Am I Overstocked...?

[Aleydis]

Thanks everyone You've all really helped. Although yesterday I didn't go get the testers... My family's car broke down. Today I saw some of my fish flashing at the bottom of the tank... I tried to do a water change... My dad got in the way, and many tears were shed. I did the water change today anyways, though I made my dad angry the day before Father's Day.
Once I get the testers, which I hope will be soon (I've already appealed to my mother, telling her: You can't give birth to a child and expect him to clean himself, find food by himself, and miraculously cure himself of all illnesses! What makes you think keeping fish will be any easier than raising a child...?) Although I thought this was a bit extreme, she seemed to come through a bit.
Once I get the testers, I'll tell you all the readings.
Corleone- Wow- your aunt's slightly worse than my parents, even! At least they expect the fish to live for at least an year... But at the same time they believe they can do close to nothing as this happens...

What REALLY scares me is that my dad's thinking about getting his own tank and Angelfish...! He says with Angelfish, he'll 'Show me how easy fishkeeping can be.'
I'm scared for the fish. Very scared. Poor angelfish. I hope he learns just how hard it actually is to keep fish if he actually does get a tank and angelfish.
(He seems to think he can cram 6 angelfish in a 15 gallon tank, which I think by itself is crazy.)

 

[Corleone]

I really hate to suggest subjecting his fish to this, but my best suggestion is to stay out of his way, but get him to agree to stay out of yours. My aunt's only beginning to see the problem with her way of thinking now. Her tank's been running for five years, and she still goes through a tankful of fish in two or three months. Mine's been up six months with three deaths, and I've had a higher stocking level right out of my cycle than she ever managed to keep for more than a few days.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I agree Corleone, lead your dad by example. Sit him down and have a mature discussion, say look you have your way of doing things, I have mine, lets just leave each other alone, I'll do it my way, you do it your way. Then in a few months when you have a healthy thriving tank and rarely ever loose fish (and haven't spent a fortune, just do good regular maintenance which costs next to nothing) and his fish are dying all over the place, hopefully he'll start to come round to your way of doing things. Clearly not good for his fish, but sometimes you have to loose a battle to win a war.

 

[Aleydis]

I had my dad sign a contract today. I gave myself 95% control, and hi, 5% control as an advisor.. xD I think he took it as a joke, though.
If he IS serious about getting the angelfish, that's what I'll do. Thanks, guys (girls) xD. I'll be waiting for when all his fish die and he comes crawling to me for help!

The good thing is, today I cheered him up with a nice Father's Day card, and he SAYS he'll take me to Petsmart or someplace and let me get what I want.

These are the things I'm picking up:

Aquarium water Test kit
Water Conditioner (Putting out water for 48 hours is too long a wait, especially for a tank that REALLY needs a water change)
Epsom Salt...? (Good for bloating and internal bacterial infections, I heard... I lost a fish yesterday to bacterial infection. Its liver was all red... )
Heater for the quarantine tank (It's been going without for weeks)
Gravel Vac elongation tubes (It's too short. Whenever I vac I have to reach all the way in- Upper arm deep in water)

Any suggestions on what else I should (or shouldn't) get...?

 

[Corleone]

Aquarium water Test kit
Water Conditioner (Putting out water for 48 hours is too long a wait, especially for a tank that REALLY needs a water change)
Epsom Salt...? (Good for bloating and internal bacterial infections, I heard... I lost a fish yesterday to bacterial infection. Its liver was all red... )
Heater for the quarantine tank (It's been going without for weeks)
Gravel Vac elongation tubes (It's too short. Whenever I vac I have to reach all the way in- Upper arm deep in water)

Sounds like my stock. Not sure if you're just feeding flake or not, but if so, throw in a couple alternate foods (I like hikari micropellets and frozen bloodworm, I also keep live blackworm, but your family might freak out seeing worms in the fridge). Feed the flake normally, but rotate with some special treats a couple times a week. Since I started doing that, my fish have shown better color and been more active. It'll really rub it in with your dad

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I had my dad sign a contract today. I gave myself 95% control, and hi, 5% control as an advisor.. xD I think he took it as a joke, though.
If he IS serious about getting the angelfish, that's what I'll do. Thanks, guys (girls) xD. I'll be waiting for when all his fish die and he comes crawling to me for help!

The good thing is, today I cheered him up with a nice Father's Day card, and he SAYS he'll take me to Petsmart or someplace and let me get what I want.

These are the things I'm picking up:

Aquarium water Test kit
Water Conditioner (Putting out water for 48 hours is too long a wait, especially for a tank that REALLY needs a water change)
Epsom Salt...? (Good for bloating and internal bacterial infections, I heard... I lost a fish yesterday to bacterial infection. Its liver was all red... )
Heater for the quarantine tank (It's been going without for weeks)
Gravel Vac elongation tubes (It's too short. Whenever I vac I have to reach all the way in- Upper arm deep in water)

Any suggestions on what else I should (or shouldn't) get...?

sounds good, hopefully your dad will come round to your way of thinking.

 

[Aleydis]

At Petsmart I got:

Aquarium Test kit
Water conditioner
Vegi-clip (It looked so cute!)

I asked for Epsom salt. The guy said he had no idea what it was. He also told me to lower PH, I should drop sliced lemon into the water.

WHAT?

I tested my water late last night yesterday...
Nitrate= 0
Nitrite= 0
Ammonia= 2
PH= 7.6
High range PH= 8.4

Does it look good...? I'm doubtful.
I was particularly worried about my ammonia levels, so I did a 50% water change yesterday. What else can I do to lower ammonia...? My parents made me promise I wouldn't test again for the rest of this week, since they wanted to save the test liquids ($34 for a kit! They freaked)

I saw a couple of my fish today flashing a the bottom of the tank. Some were swimming straight up and down.

I lost a fish today in the other tank... It wasn't as well maintenanced as my community tank... No readings. But this fish was swimming strangely, leaning on plants, and it was so sad... Because it TRIED so hard to swim, and once it reached the surface it'd just float back down on its side. Every time it tries to swim, he floats back down on his side aimlessly. Then it just fell and wouldn't get back up. I shook the glass I put him in, but he was dead.

I'm so confused...! Yesterday, in the same tank a fish died, cause unknown.

Also, a male guppy in my community tank today was swimming at the surface. It wouldn't go down. I tried to scare it a bit to see if it'd do anything, but it just shot down an inch or so, and then came to the surface again. His name is Ivan, and I've never had any problems with him. Today, out of the blue, he starts refusing food and has distanced himself from the others. He is also swimming at an upwards angle. I don't know what's wrong with him.

...Now I'm starting to loose fish. I lost a fish to what I THINK is dropsy/internal infection, two to reasons unknown, one fish to what I THINK is swim bladder, and one to internal injury. That's 5 fish!

What do you all think I should do...?

Miss Wiggle, Corleone, you've both been a great help. I CANNOT thank you enough.

 

[Corleone]

Miss Wiggle, Corleone, you've both been a great help. I CANNOT thank you enough. [/font][/color]

Glad I've been helping. I'll tell you the truth: I've had fish for about six or seven months now, I just parrot what I've learned, most of which was from Miss Wiggle, so the thanks is really there.

Epsom salt isn't usually in pet stores, but check a drug store or supermarket. It's usually sold as a foot care product (works wonders on foot swelling or infections in people as well as fish).

Anyway, 2 ppm ammonia? That's really bad - 0.5 is panic level, IMO. You'll need to start a series of water changes to get it and keep it below .25. If nitrite and nitrate are both 0, it sounds like your cycle isn't even progressing. Did you check the sticky thread for people willing to donate mature media in your area? That should help consideraby at this point. If you can find biospira refrigerated, it might help as well. My experience with biospira is that it's either divine intervention or a kick in the nuts. When it works, it's great, when it doesn't, it's a waste of $20.

The ammonia levels can account for the deaths, both directly and indirectly from impaired immune systems caused by the stress from high ammonia levels.

Don't worry about your pH. Mine is 7.6 as well, and while I wasn't able to keep rams successfully, all my other fish are thriving, and a number of them prefer a slightly acidic pH.

Ignore them on saving the test liquids, too - I test almost daily and the only test bottle I used up was the pH bottle, and that one got dropped and stepped on, so most of it didn't even get to test anything.

 

[Aleydis]

Miss Wiggle, Corleone, you've both been a great help. I CANNOT thank you enough. [/font][/color]

Glad I've been helping. I'll tell you the truth: I've had fish for about six or seven months now, I just parrot what I've learned, most of which was from Miss Wiggle, so the thanks is really there.

Epsom salt isn't usually in pet stores, but check a drug store or supermarket. It's usually sold as a foot care product (works wonders on foot swelling or infections in people as well as fish).

Anyway, 2 ppm ammonia? That's really bad - 0.5 is panic level, IMO. You'll need to start a series of water changes to get it and keep it below .25. If nitrite and nitrate are both 0, it sounds like your cycle isn't even progressing. Did you check the sticky thread for people willing to donate mature media in your area? That should help consideraby at this point. If you can find biospira refrigerated, it might help as well. My experience with biospira is that it's either divine intervention or a kick in the nuts. When it works, it's great, when it doesn't, it's a waste of $20.

The ammonia levels can account for the deaths, both directly and indirectly from impaired immune systems caused by the stress from high ammonia levels.

Don't worry about your pH. Mine is 7.6 as well, and while I wasn't able to keep rams successfully, all my other fish are thriving, and a number of them prefer a slightly acidic pH.

Ignore them on saving the test liquids, too - I test almost daily and the only test bottle I used up was the pH bottle, and that one got dropped and stepped on, so most of it didn't even get to test anything.

Yikes! Is it really that bad?!?

I can't do anything about mature media, etc etc etc. I'm too young to even consider. Plus, my parents would freak on that most probably too.

About the test liquid- I really don't think I'll be able to get away with testing so frequently. The bottle itself isn't that big, and each test calls for 8 droplets from the bottle, unless I use half the water, thus using half the liquids needed.

What do you mean, a series of water changes...? Do you mean I need to change the water daily? Doesn't that mean it'll disturb to formation of nitrate or nitrite...? Augh I need to look at the nitrate/nitrite cycle stuff again...

Are there any natural ways I can up my nitrite/nitrate and lower ammonia? I know it's sorta cruel, but I really don't have the opportunity to get out and buy specific medicines right now.

 

[Corleone]

By a series, I mean several, spaced out by a half hour or so.

It may disrupt the formation of nitrates and so forth, but few fish can survive that level of ammonia for long, and none will survive unscathed. When cycling with fish, water changes have to be as big and frequent as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite under 0.25 ppm.

The only natural way is if you can introduce more bacteria. Most bottled products don't work, but if you have access to a mature and established tank, you can remove some of its biological media, put it in a bucket or bag of tank water, and then put it in your filter.

You'll be surprised how long those little bottles last, one of mine calls for 10 drops per test and is still 2/3s full.

 

[Aleydis]

Hmmm... So what you're suggesting is that I change the water every half hour? Even at night? I don't think it should be THIS complicated.
Unfortunately I have no access to mature media at the moment, and yes, I have seen the sticky about the donation of media to newbies.
Do you know for a fact that this 'series' of water changes actually work?
I took another ammonia test just now, and am confused. The result was same as yesterday, even though I painstakingly changed 50% of the water in the tank!

 

[Corleone]

No, not forever, sorry! Just to get it down to .25 ppm. After that, daily or twice daily should be sufficient to control it.

 

[Aleydis]

Once or twice DAILY? Although it's better, isn't there still some way to get it back into the normal cycle (Water changes 10% every week)? Or is it hopeless...?
I bought a 10 gallon tank, it's not even set up yet. Once the cycle is PROPERLY cycled, maybe I can add some fish over there, then slowly add them back in, keeping ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at balance?
Will my fish make it that far?

Well, I accept the fact that I can't save every single fish, being a newbie and all, but I want to minimize the death toll as much as possible. Right now I'm a bit skeptical, since even after the 50% water change + gravel vac, my ammonia level stays pretty much the same.
Plus two fish showed signs of general illness today. My parents have oh so politely seized this opportunity to suggest in an oh-so-kindly way that MAYBE my changing of water had caused this.

I never win.

 

[Corleone]

Weekly water changes are for established tanks. The massive and frequent water changes necessary to control ammonia levels in a cycle is, IMO, the biggest reasons on the human side for fishless cycling.

Get your parents reading this forum We've got easily hundreds of people here who can attest to the requirements of successful fishkeeping.

 

[Aleydis]

My parents would love to read this forum... If it was in their language.
They don't understand English well, hate computers, and I am just the most horrible translator.

This 'tight spot' of my 'ongoing saga' just keeps on getting tighter.
Now a tiny part of me wishes I didn't get the testing kits, since I'm so stressed out right now for my fishies.
I'm so scared I'll loose Ivan. I love him so much- he's my favorite male guppy!

GOOD NEWS IS:
After tons of diagrams, prints off the internet, and pages from books, my mom has finally begun to listen to me. She is now on my side, after being totally creeped out by all the problems ammonia can cause.
She says she'll follow through with whatever I need to do, as long as it's for the fish.

Now there's just the big ol' dad hurdle.