Algal Rollercoaster Ride

[lljdma06]

I think going for a lower light level will help you out until you grow your green thumbs. In my first planted tank, about 5 years ago, I struggled with bad greenwater and BGA, had too much light (3+ WPG) and not enough CO2 or nutrients and people here helped me out. Everybody has a stage where they start out and make mistakes.

Liz

Well I agree with you on the the possibility of lowering the intensity of my lights but I don't think it's inevitable just yet as I may be able to work with the current light set-up by changing how I plant things (i.e. start to space them a part more), moving some of my appliances around the tank (especially DC) etc.

Also, modifying what lights I have will involve not just swapping the fluorescent tube but the entire electrics. So it's a job i'm not really looking forward to since it will invalidate my warranty with Cayman and there's no way of knowing whether or not the modifications will be safe with water.

Well, if you're going to keep your lighting... You'll need to...

1. Keep that CO2 working and stable
2. Get a handle on the ferts
3. Make sure the flow is strong
4. Add more plants, I'm not kidding, you'll need a much higher plant mass than what you've got. My current tank is a higher light setup, about 48W of T5HO over 17g or so. The plant mass is massive.
5. Like you said, separate the plants and plant them properly as I suggested above. Don't be afraid to be rough. I've seen stemplants recover and thrive even when wittled down to a single leaf or two. And my eleocharis was in a tub outside in the elements before I planted it. Came as brown mush after a bad delivery with a couple white roots and green leaves. Plants are pretty tough.

Sorry, for a dumb question, but what's your photoperiod?
Liz

 

[ian]

as above...I would also add a glass diffuser so you can actually see where your C02 is being dispersed. Most algaes thrive on unstable/low C02, this can be blamed in your tank. The other thing i would do is to up your water changes, just up them to 2 a week and i'll put money on that you'll see a difference.

Also you cannot disregard the journals, this is where i learnt most what i know regarding algae and how to deal with it. Its handy sometimes when you have a spare hour to just browse them, you'll be surprised what you will come across. As i have said in previous threads, don't disregard any advice you're given. That one piece by someone may just be the break through that you need.

 

[mark4785]

Also you cannot disregard the journals, this is where i learnt most what i know regarding algae and how to deal with it. Its handy sometimes when you have a spare hour to just browse them, you'll be surprised what you will come across

Please try not to take offence. I'm more of a tactile learner. I never read books/newspapers or anything similar to this unless it's a part of academic study. Thats probably why I'm avoiding the journals on top of the fact that I personally can't relate any of them to my specific problems.

I have a few pics of some small changes I've made in the tank over a 20 minute period.

1. I've separated the bunched Eleocharvis into 4 different lots:

2. I've separated the clumped Bacopa into several lots:

The eleocharvis was very hard to separate, it didn't have a clear-to-see root structure.

Nearly all of the Bacopa (which are cuttings taken from the top-half of the initial Bacopa) have one singular white root. As a result they are very flimsy.

I have stopped making changes at this point because I don't know if what I've done is correct.

Well, if you're going to keep your lighting... You'll need to...

1. Keep that CO2 working and stable
2. Get a handle on the ferts
3. Make sure the flow is strong
4. Add more plants, I'm not kidding, you'll need a much higher plant mass than what you've got. My current tank is a higher light setup, about 48W of T5HO over 17g or so. The plant mass is massive.
5. Like you said, separate the plants and plant them properly as I suggested above. Don't be afraid to be rough. I've seen stemplants recover and thrive even when wittled down to a single leaf or two. And my eleocharis was in a tub outside in the elements before I planted it. Came as brown mush after a bad delivery with a couple white roots and green leaves. Plants are pretty tough.

Sorry, for a dumb question, but what's your photoperiod?
Liz

1. The c02 is always lime green at lights on and can have a tinge of yellow towards the end of the day. Is that not stable?
2. I think the amount of ferts I'm dosing is substantial, it's more an issue with them being transported to where they need to be, right?
3. It is VERY strong lol.
4. What plants would you suggest to fill up the free space?
5. I've started doing this but I feel I need someone to look at what I've done and appraise it first so I know if I'm on the right lines or not.

The photoperiod is 8 hours.

Mark.

 

[lljdma06]

Maybe asking the photoperiod wasn't such a dumb question. If this were my setup, I'd lower the photoperiod to six hours, then gradually build up to 8.

 

[mark4785]

Maybe asking the photoperiod wasn't such a dumb question. If this were my setup, I'd lower the photoperiod to six hours, then gradually build up to 8.

Really? Why would you lower it to 6?

 

[lljdma06]

Maybe asking the photoperiod wasn't such a dumb question. If this were my setup, I'd lower the photoperiod to six hours, then gradually build up to 8.

Really? Why would you lower it to 6?

The longer the light is on, the more the plants want to eat, the more CO2 they use up. Harder to keep them happy. I could be wrong. I don't like having long photoperiods in the beginning. Just me, and it seems to work well for me. Somebody else can explain it better, I'm sure. 8 hours for a new tank with as little plant mass as you have and all the stuff your putting in it. Too long, IMO.

Liz

 

[ian]

a lot of scapers start with a lower photo period, plants will reach there maximum photosynthesise time around the 4 hour mark, so it not such a dumb thing to do. The photo period can be lengthened when the plants become well established. It good sometimes to go back to basics.

You can try the lower photo period and up the water changes.

 

[mark4785]

a lot of scapers start with a lower photo period, plants will reach there maximum photosynthesise time around the 4 hour mark, so it not such a dumb thing to do. The photo period can be lengthened when the plants become well established. It good sometimes to go back to basics.

You can try the lower photo period and up the water changes.

Ok, thanks. I'll try those changes out starting tomorrow.

May I ask what you (or anybody) think of the way in which I've planted the cuttings?

as above...I would also add a glass diffuser so you can actually see where your C02 is being dispersed. Most algaes thrive on unstable/low C02, this can be blamed in your tank. The other thing i would do is to up your water changes, just up them to 2 a week and i'll put money on that you'll see a difference.

Also you cannot disregard the journals, this is where i learnt most what i know regarding algae and how to deal with it. Its handy sometimes when you have a spare hour to just browse them, you'll be surprised what you will come across. As i have said in previous threads, don't disregard any advice you're given. That one piece by someone may just be the break through that you need.

Would this be an ideal glass diffuser for me to use? > http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/up-co2-atomiser-20-p-2161.html

 

[ian]

The cuttings look fine, i would probably 'up' the amount of plant mass (as stated earlier). As long as you think it looks good, i wouldn't worry about how you plant them. That's the way to plant stems though, Mark

I personally wouldn't go for that diffuser, the plastic ones have a habit of diffusing from the sides and not the ceramic ring. It'll be worth paying the extra few quid for this one...

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-design-pollen-m-glass-co2-diffuser-p-5430.html

 

[mark4785]

The cuttings look fine, i would probably 'up' the amount of plant mass (as stated earlier). As long as you think it looks good, i wouldn't worry about how you plant them. That's the way to plant stems though, Mark

I personally wouldn't go for that diffuser, the plastic ones have a habit of diffusing from the sides and not the ceramic ring. It'll be worth paying the extra few quid for this one...

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-design-pollen-m-glass-co2-diffuser-p-5430.html

Sorry, I didn't realise it was plastic. I will order the one you have suggested I use and cross my fingers that it will work. The only flaw to the one you have chosen is that it doesn't have an integrated bubble-counter. Should I source a bubble counter or is relying on my drop-checker just as good?

I'm wanting to cut up my Limnophila for it's cuttings (and plant them individual of each other) and bin the rock wool but the only bit of the plant where I feel I can snip is where I've put the black line below:

I kinda don't know where to start with this particular plant lol

 

[ian]

if you're not using a separate counter then this one should be fine...

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-design-150-glass-co2-diffuser-p-1984.html

Limnophila is pretty hardcore, you can snip it just above the leaved area and it will grow itself more roots. The bottom part of the plant will bush out though, so just be aware of that.

 

[mark4785]

Limnophila is pretty hardcore, you can snip it just above the leaved area and it will grow itself more roots. The bottom part of the plant will bush out though, so just be aware of that.

Oh right, I had no idea it worked like that. I thought it would respond like a tree cutting because I think they require rooting powder if you plant them otherwise they die.

So if I cut my limnophila it won't matter if I plant a completely rootless cutting? Wow.

 

[SuperColey1]

The eleocharvis was very hard to separate, it didn't have a clear-to-see root structure.

I wouldn't worry about seeing root structures. I sometimes bury plants (have done it with HC and others) and they appear a day/week later

1. The c02 is always lime green at lights on and can have a tinge of yellow towards the end of the day. Is that not stable?

Yes it means it is stable in the area that the DC is. The DC is only an indicator. It can only tell you what it reads at the area it is. The ppm in one area can be vastly different to another. I think Tom Barr once measured one with a top notch CO2 measure 100ppm at the diffuser yet 8ppm at some areas of substrate

2. I think the amount of ferts I'm dosing is substantial, it's more an issue with them being transported to where they need to be, right?

Yep

3. It is VERY strong lol.

I think we should start referring to it as circulation not flow. High turnover is good but then it doesn't mean that the flow is equaling good circulation. Gives a better chance of it being so though.

4. What plants would you suggest to fill up the free space?

Lol I suggest the plants I am selling next month More seriously you should let us know if you want low plants or more high stem plants etc.

Really? Why would you lower it to 6?

As per Ian's post above some plants (especially under high light) can start to close up their leaves after 4 hours. Ignore those articles that suggest the peak is at 4-6 hours. They are at peak virtually the minute the lights are on. It is surivival instinct

Personally I would try one of those UP atomizers. The airstone type. They are getting rave reviews and are supposed to give a much finer mist than the glass ones. Whichever it is it wll need a quick bleach clean followed by dechlor soak at each weekly water change.

AC

AC

 

[coldcazzie]

Limnophila is pretty hardcore, you can snip it just above the leaved area and it will grow itself more roots. The bottom part of the plant will bush out though, so just be aware of that.

Oh right, I had no idea it worked like that. I thought it would respond like a tree cutting because I think they require rooting powder if you plant them otherwise they die.

So if I cut my limnophila it won't matter if I plant a completely rootless cutting? Wow.

I regularly snap my stem plants off when they get a bit too tall and just shove them straight back in the sand. Sometimes they have node roots (roots coming out of the stme part way up), sometimes they dont. Not one of them have died yet, in fact they've all flourished. Stems are, as far as I can tell, one of the most robust types of plants. If you'd like I can take and post up a picture of how my stems are planted?

 

[mark4785]

More seriously you should let us know if you want low plants or more high stem plants etc.

I'd be looking for anything that is suitable for the mid-ground or foreground of the tank since I have quite a few tall plants at the back.

I visited my LFS today because I need to return a faulty pond cleaner and happened to ask how I would get the inlet and outlet pipes of an external filter through the hood of my planted tank. It turns out there is a flap that can be opened on the back of the hood which is where an auto-feeder can be installed; instead of putting an autofeeder into this area I'd be sticking the inlet and outlet pipes through it. This isn't ideal as it limits where I can put the pipes and it would be hard to stop them slipping out of the tank as theres no grip.

The guy who I spoke to still said that my algae issues are down to the brand of my 2 x 28w T5's which I believe is Philips. I believe he recommended I switch to Aquaflora T5 tubes with the same wattage as they "provide more vitamins". I don't see his logic sadly, and I believe you didn't either. He also believes that my Cayman 05 internal filter has an adequate LPH rate for a planted aquarium and suggested I keep it and just add shrimps to deal with any staghorn/green algae issues.

He then showed me the external filters he had in stock and suggested I use an Eheim Ecco 300. Would this be any good? In short, will swapping my internal for this solve my algae problems?

If I am to switch to using an external, which would be ideal as I think everyone agrees that the Cayman 05 is too bulky, I still don't know who to rely on who could safely remove it from its power connection. 3 appliances (heater, lights and filter) are on the same circuit which means one plug switches them off/on. Would a qualified electrician be albe to remove it from this circuit safely?

Mark.