Algal Rollercoaster Ride

[mark4785]

yes, it's normally small spike that aren't picked up on test kits. Have you thought about a glass diffuser? Its more visible then to where your C02 is being diffused around the tank. I know your drop checker is @ lime green, but i really can't understand why you continue to have all of these problems. I'm also seeing the bottom of your stem plants aren't looking to healthy, are they still in pots or rings?

Yes, Infact I installed a glass diffuser a month ago and it wouldn't work properly. There was one trail of bubbles floating up from it; on the box showing the product in action it showed 15-20 trails of small bubbles. I took it out and put the mini-flipper back in as I wasn't convinced that it would do a good job at diffusing.

 

[mark4785]

Now, I can see that you are not very densly planted at all. At least not what I would consider densly planted. Lots of bare substrate.

I'm not sure that I'd want to have a densley planted tank because more stems/leaves would buffer the flow to some degree and inevitably cause algae outbreaks on some of the other plants.

Your stems are also too clumped together. If they are squished like that, the bottom parts of the stems die and you have ammonia spikes. I'd separate to individual stems and replant.

Which plant stems are too clumped together? The reason I don't separate is because I've never really learned how to distinguish between what parts of the plant go under the substrate and the parts that grow above. For instance, If I snipped the top half of my Bacopa, I'd be confused as to whether you could plant that cutting or not.

Trim the stems from the bottom and keep only the healthy portions.

Again, I don't know what part of the plant, post-trimming, is viable to be planted in the substrate.

The anubia in the foreground, is that in the substrate? I can't tell for certain.

No it's not. Rhizome is at the surface of the substrate.

I see white roots and new growth in the Eleocharis, so it'll survive. You'll need to split the plant and remove the algae. The plant should be planted in much smaller clumps than that. I've received Eleocharis in worse condition in the post, stuck it in a tub outside and that still grew well in my last 8g scape.

I really hate splitting delicate things. I suppose I'm a bit sensitive to 'hurting' or damaging the plant. Again, I'm also a bit confused as to what part of the eleocharis goes in the substrate. From the roots that I can distinguish from the leaves, the roots seem very small and don't act as a good anchor.

For all the fancy stuff you are doing, I'd increase your plant mass, especially since this tank is not old.

I'd love to but I'd end up with either algae infested plants or yellow leaves. I've only just moved a set of bacopa more towards the foreground because it was stopping light getting to my Limnophila (bottom half of the Limnophila went yellow). I'd have extreme anxiety and OCD with rearranging stuff If I had more things to work with as I'd be constantly thinking about the cause and effect of each of my plants positions on other plants.

Should I have separated my Limnophila so it doesn't resemble a clumped bush? I guess that would have solved the problem. I hate separating plants as I have low confidence afterwards as I think I've either planted the cuttings wrongly, damaged them or planted something that isn't viable.

 

[lljdma06]

Now, I can see that you are not very densly planted at all. At least not what I would consider densly planted. Lots of bare substrate.

I'm not sure that I'd want to have a densley planted tank because more stems/leaves would buffer the flow to some degree and inevitably cause algae outbreaks on some of the other plants.

Then halve your lighting, stop CO2, stop dosing and just enjoy a few crypts. LOLOL... Wait! That's what I did with my 36g and that ended up being a nice planted tank too.

Your stems are also too clumped together. If they are squished like that, the bottom parts of the stems die and you have ammonia spikes. I'd separate to individual stems and replant.

Which plant stems are too clumped together? The reason I don't separate is because I've never really learned how to distinguish between what parts of the plant go under the substrate and the parts that grow above. For instance, If I snipped the top half of my Bacopa, I'd be confused as to whether you could plant that cutting or not.

All of the stemplants are too close together. When trimming, for your case, keep the top half. Those look better to me.

Trim the stems from the bottom and keep only the healthy portions.

Again, I don't know what part of the plant, post-trimming, is viable to be planted in the substrate.

top half

The anubia in the foreground, is that in the substrate? I can't tell for certain.

No it's not. Rhizome is at the surface of the substrate.

Fair enough. Idealy, however, anubias should be attached to rocks and wood.

I see white roots and new growth in the Eleocharis, so it'll survive. You'll need to split the plant and remove the algae. The plant should be planted in much smaller clumps than that. I've received Eleocharis in worse condition in the post, stuck it in a tub outside and that still grew well in my last 8g scape.

I really hate splitting delicate things. I suppose I'm a bit sensitive to 'hurting' or damaging the plant. Again, I'm also a bit confused as to what part of the eleocharis goes in the substrate. From the roots that I can distinguish from the leaves, the roots seem very small and don't act as a good anchor.

White roots - go in substrate
Green leaves - above the substrate. You have it planted in the right direction. You just need to separate it. The plant needs circulation. It'll handle a bit of splitting. If you saw how I split my plants, you'd faint. I am rough.

For all the fancy stuff you are doing, I'd increase your plant mass, especially since this tank is not old.

I'd love to but I'd end up with either algae infested plants or yellow leaves. I've only just moved a set of bacopa more towards the foreground because it was stopping light getting to my Limnophila (bottom half of the Limnophila went yellow). I'd have extreme anxiety and OCD with rearranging stuff If I had more things to work with as I'd be constantly thinking about the cause and effect of each of my plants positions on other plants.

Should I have separated my Limnophila so it doesn't resemble a clumped bush? I guess that would have solved the problem. I hate separating plants as I have low confidence afterwards as I think I've either planted the cuttings wrongly, damaged them or planted something that isn't viable.

[/quote]

Well there ya go! Yes, you should have. Also, don't tweak so much and shift things about after an initial planting. I see more tanks get algae because hobbiests can't just leave the tank alone after they've done an initial planting or a heavy rescape. My tank's been running in it's current scape since late December, I haven't touched it, other than to trim. The plants need to get used to their environment.

Sorry, if I'm a bit gruff with you. It's not my intention. I think you should just read a couple of the journals, the successful ones, and have a look at what the members are doing. Why are they successful? It's not always about having a lot of gadgets...

Hope I cleared things up a bit.

Liz

 

[mark4785]

Idealy, however, anubias should be attached to rocks and wood.

It was initially tied to a piece of wood but the powerhead kept loosening it. Hence, it now being planted in the substrate.

I think you should just read a couple of the journals, the successful ones, and have a look at what the members are doing. Why are they successful? It's not always about having a lot of gadgets...

I have read some of them and If I had found anything note worthy that helps me sort out my tank problems, I would have some notes. I'm not sure where you've got the gadget idea, it certainly wasn't picked up from me.


I will split/snip some of my Bacopa tomorrow. The one on the right on it's own definitely needs the top half snipped off because the lower half doesn't have growth and it would seem that the roots are growing out from the top half of the plant so I guess they could be buried into the substrate straight away.

The plant i'm not looking forward to splitting is the Limnophila because it's very delicate. I think the branches will snap as I'm trying to pull them out of the rock wool.

 

[PDSimon]

Plants often do better when they are handled with a bit of force! the eleocharis for example is best cut into little cubes, or you can pull it apart and then cut the top of.

 

[lljdma06]

Even if the journal doesn't have the same problems, or even any problems at all, you can still learn from reading it.

 

[JoshuaA]

An algae ID print out (displayed on first page of this thread) states hair algae is caused by "excess nutrients/sillicates". SuperColey seemed to generally concur with what it was saying. Problem is, what nutrient do I decrease?

Hair algae isn't caused by excess nutrients, algae full stop isn't caused by excess nutrients. This is a given...it's caused by ammonia spikes, low CO2, Low nutrients.

Where is your C02 diffuser?

I totally agree Ianho, the advice given here has been flawless.

My experience with hair algae was easily solved and I still kept my TPN+ dosing going, all I need to do was adjust the Co2 and ensure it was evenly distributed. I put it mainly down to the CO2 although I never had an ammonia spike I could quite possibly say the nutrients wasn't in balance either at the time.

Green spot algae - ensure there are no deadspots, if it's on the glass direct flow that way and there will be no algae.

Even if the journal doesn't have the same problems, or even any problems at all, you can still learn from reading it.

Probably the best advice so far in this, I had read a lot of planted tank journals before I delved into it myself to ensure that if I ever did come across a problem I would most likely already know what to do and stop it just as it started. Hence why my staghorn was dead within a few days of forming, I've learnt a lot and still learn so much these days on this forum, there's a wealth of knowledge up for grabs in those journals. Perhaps the fact I am reading many Marine journals might mean in a year or so I'll take a dip on the salty side.

I think all the answers to your questions have been given and it's up to you now to make the move.

 

[mark4785]

Even if the journal doesn't have the same problems, or even any problems at all, you can still learn from reading it.

Yes definitely, what i've learned so far, from what I've read, just doesn't happen to help with the problems I am dealing with. Why would I open up a thread asking questions if I'd already read into the answer? Most of the journals consist of introducing a persons' tank, the contents of it, where they sourced various things. It hardly compares to the situation I'm in; I have specific questions that, thanks to people like yourself, I get specific responses to. So in short I'd prefer not to spend hours trying to match up the limited plant issues discussed in journals which often have different problems and different lighting specs etc.

Perhaps the fact I am reading many Marine journals might mean in a year or so I'll take a dip on the salty side.

Thats called being proactive. I already have an aquarium set-up which was not mean't to be a planted aquarium. I soon converted it into a planted aquarium because the way in which employees at one particular LFS described planted tanks gave me the impression that I couldn't go wrong with it. They were obviously wrong and the way in which they explain how to maintain a planted tank was very outdated, and still is outdated when I consult with them over the phone. For instance, they are still in the mindset of restricting nutrients to get rid of algae, they will try to sell me anti-algal products, will happily sell me a plant without telling me the extent to which it took them to grow it. This has all led me into a false sense of security with regards to planted tanks.

Unfortunately, I can't be proactive like yourself because I created a planted tank without learning about it first. My LFS would have me believe maintaining a planted tank is as easy has pie! So it hurts to just be told "read a journal and everything will be fine". If I didn't have a planted tank right now I could read any successful planted tank journal, try to emulate the environment which was described in that journal, and with a bit of luck I'd have a successful aquarium.

I can't do that in my situation and it isn't that simple.

 

[SuperColey1]

I 'concurred' that the chart was correct 'in the main' however we are talking about staghorn not hair algae. I don't agree with the cause given for the hair algae however I do agree with the reason given for the staghorn.

I think you'ld be surprised but most people would probably be willing to open a box, remove a wire and reqire a standard plug on it. A generation ago people would do it all the time. Maybe these days we are a little out of practice what with these plugs that are sealed to the wires. However thats your choice so I won't argue.

On the comment I made r.e. moving some things aroun I meant move powerheads to different positions, move diffusers to different positions,move DC around the tank to gauge different areas. Not just left and right. also up and down different levels as well.

Gauge from each movement if the flow around the tank is better or worse.

I can concur with those above. I am pretty violent with my plants. I snap things off etc. There is no right or wrong with stems. Cut them in half and poke bot bits into the sand. there is no bottom nor end. They will have a new root system from wherever you put in the substrate within a week.

However like said above for your plantmas I would've just gone non CO2, absolute minimal ferts, cut the lighting etc. I said that in my first ever post. The lights are why we are where we are now. Another electrical matter though!!

AC

 

[mark4785]

Plants often do better when they are handled with a bit of force! the eleocharis for example is best cut into little cubes, or you can pull it apart and then cut the top of.

Nice to see you again PDSimon.

I'll see what I can do tomorrow and I'll get an updated picture to show the changes.

However like said above for your plantmas I would've just gone non CO2, absolute minimal ferts, cut the lighting etc. I said that in my first ever post. The lights are why we are where we are now. Another electrical matter though!!

Maybe I will switch to a low light tank. It all rests on how much more patience I have towards resolving the flow issues. If I can't get an adequate resolution with my current light specs in the next few months I'll see if I can get a qualified electrician in to tweek a few things, namely disconnect the cayman filter so I can remove it and instruct him/her to install some new lighting.

 

[JoshuaA]

Yes definitely, what i've learned so far, from what I've read, just doesn't happen to help with the problems I am dealing with. Why would I open up a thread asking questions if I'd already read into the answer? Most of the journals consist of introducing a persons' tank, the contents of it, where they sourced various things. It hardly compares to the situation I'm in; I have specific questions that, thanks to people like yourself, I get specific responses to. So in short I'd prefer not to spend hours trying to match up the limited plant issues discussed in journals which often have different problems and different lighting specs etc.

I don't mean to be rude in this response but if you actually took a look at the first page of journals you will find that many people suffer the EXACT same issues you are coming across, your case is nothing special. In fact even in PDSimon's journal we have discussed the whole staghorn issue as both of us had been suffering various algae at exactly the same time. Furthermore the journals actually offer insight on how the progress of algae removal went of a day by day basis the knowledge and experiences of what you are going through is all there you just have to actually look before claiming "Most of the journals consist..." etc. As a testament to this, I performed a simple google search looking to see how to remove algae and one of the first things to appear was someone's planted journal on this website.

I also don't want to make a big deal out of this but to me some of your responses have been a little rude and completely ignoring or answering back to the advice that has been given, at some times it seems like you don't want to be corrected.

So it hurts to just be told "read a journal and everything will be fine". If I didn't have a planted tank right now I could read any successful planted tank journal, try to emulate the environment which was described in that journal, and with a bit of luck I'd have a successful aquarium.

You can read them and find many people have been in the same scenario they will normally have posted day by day on how they have got out of your similar situation, quite a few journals are started when someone like yourself is in said situation.

 

[mbsqw1d]

as mentioned on the previous page and as advised by me to do so months ago on another of your many algae problem pages:

your plants are too 'clumped' together!! plants need space for them to make the most of any light, nutrients and co2.

you have more surface area of bare substrate than you do plant mass, yet you clearly have enough plants to be spread out a little more.

 

[lljdma06]

I really do appreciate you putting up the full tank shot, Mark. I'm kicking myself for not jumping in and asking for it sooner. A picture really does say a great deal.

It's not that reading a journal offers a quick fix, and I apologize for coming out strong, but you have a higher light system I'm to assume? Well, so do I. I also, like you, didn't start from scratch, but I kind of started in the middle of things (won the complete tank setup at an auction), found I couldn't maintain the scape and then changed it based on what had worked for me well in the past. If I had kept that tank as it was, I'd be in the exact same position you are currently in, or worse. I feel bad for you. Your first foray into planted tanks has not been the best experience.

I think going for a lower light level will help you out until you grow your green thumbs. In my first planted tank, about 5 years ago, I struggled with bad greenwater and BGA, had too much light (3+ WPG) and not enough CO2 or nutrients and people here helped me out. Everybody has a stage where they start out and make mistakes.

Liz

 

[mark4785]

I don't mean to be rude in this response but if you actually took a look at the first page of journals you will find that many people suffer the EXACT same issues you are coming across, your case is nothing special.

I'd prefer not to refer to journals for the reasons already stated.

I also don't want to make a big deal out of this but to me some of your responses have been a little rude and completely ignoring or answering back to the advice that has been given, at some times it seems like you don't want to be corrected.

Well you have perceived wrong and in this response of yours, you are making a big deal out of something that doesn't exist. Also, I'd like to point out that if I have ignored something, it would be for a good reason; I don't ignore people I respect and who are trying to help me. If you want to make a deal out of that then clearly you don't know how to respect others opinions Joshua.

 

[mark4785]

I think going for a lower light level will help you out until you grow your green thumbs. In my first planted tank, about 5 years ago, I struggled with bad greenwater and BGA, had too much light (3+ WPG) and not enough CO2 or nutrients and people here helped me out. Everybody has a stage where they start out and make mistakes.

Liz

Well I agree with you on the the possibility of lowering the intensity of my lights but I don't think it's inevitable just yet as I may be able to work with the current light set-up by changing how I plant things (i.e. start to space them a part more), moving some of my appliances around the tank (especially DC) etc.

Also, modifying what lights I have will involve not just swapping the fluorescent tube but the entire electrics. So it's a job i'm not really looking forward to since it will invalidate my warranty with Cayman and there's no way of knowing whether or not the modifications will be safe with water.