Algae Eater Suggestions

[Hathaway]

I'm looking for something that will happily feast on the green algae on my glass or the brown algae on some of my plants and slate. It's not out of control but would be nice to get a little help with it.

My tank is a Juwel Rio 300, 350 litres and 4 feet wide. I don't know the hardness precisely but I do live in a hard water area. My PH is 7.8. The tank is quite heavily planted with lots of caves and bogwood.
Tankmates would be 1 red tailed black shark, 10 black ruby barbs, 2 German blue rams, 2 electric blue rams, 1 opaline gourami, 24 cardinal tetra.

I've done a bit of research already and I'm struggling a bit. Otos seem to prefer softer, much more acidic water, so not sure if they'd be happy. Shrimps it seems would be a meal for the shark and barbs. The SAE apparently would disagree with the shark. I'm not particularly keen on plecos, and it seems the smaller more attractive versions are less efficient algae eaters.
I'm looking at nerite snails as a possibility but was looking for something a little more interesting ideally.
Does anyone have any ideas for me to consider, or even corrections if I've gone wrong somewhere?
I know the shark is an algae eater but on his own he'd probably struggle to stay on top of things in a tank this size wouldn't he?

 

[Munroco]

I've been researching algae eaters recently and I think the consensus it that siamese algae eaters will do the best job, but as you say they are probably incompatible with your shark. Is the shark definitely staying?

 

[Byron]

First, you need to ID the algae.  No fish will eat all types of algae.  There are some fish that will eat this or that, but remember that adding more fish is also going to increase the bioload which is part of the reason the algae is there.  Nutrients and light cause algae.
 
If you can pin down the algae, we can look at ways to keep it in check, and this is always the only useful method...control, not eliminating, but control means reducing the opportunity.  Light is crucial, but so is nutrient availability including any plant additives.
 
A quick final word on the SAE...Neil is quite correct, this would be a very bad fish to add in with a RTS.  The latter usually (assuming it is in good health and normal in its behaviours) takes a strong dislike to any substrate fish invading its territory.
 
Byron.

 

[San O Fisher]

I agree with finding the root cause. Brown algae usually is mire common in newer tanks. I had it in my current tank and when I upped my light wattage it disappeared in a few days.

Regarding algae eaters a group of ottos or a BN has worked for me. I had 2 albino BNs that were quite effective.

 

[Far_King]

I do have some SAE in with a RTBS and I can confirm that the RTBS can get a bit stroppy at times.  They're all fully grown and have plenty of room and she only has a go at feeding time.  I would concur with those above that these fish should not ideally be kept together.
 
Otocinculus are good at cleaning the glass and may eat the brown algae too.  Snails may be the way to go.
 
Really you need to identify the cause of the algae and alter things accordingly as Byron mentioned.  Do not use any treatment to remove algae chemically.  Am I right to presume that the plants are real plants and not silk or plastic?

 

[Hathaway]

The algae situation appears to be better than it was. I was also struggling with hair algae although that seems to have largely gone, and what little is left the gourami, to my surprise, is happy to munch on. I've tried lessening the amount of time the main lights stay on and maintaining a better regiment of dosing the tank with fertilisers - seachem flourish excel every other day, seachem flourish once a week and tetra crypto once a month - all the plants are doing well.

Nitrates are high as unfortunately it's coming out of the tap at 50ppm. I'm waiting to see if the JBL BionitratEx filters bags I added to the external canister will work, added enough bags for 400 litres. Currently doing 25% water changes weekly. Even with all the plants it's stubbornly hovering at about 50-60ppm according to my salifert liquid test kit.

The shark isn't in yet (I'm still in the process of adding fish slowly) but I actually bought this specific size aquarium for him so he's definitely one to stay.

I've taken some pictures of the two offending algae issues and a general overview of the tank. I take it even though I have 4 distinctive caves and plenty of broken lines of sight, an SAE is still out of the question?
Shame about the shrimp, I think they're quite fascinating, just not as meal items lol.

 

[Far_King]

Given plenty of cover the shark should claim a territory.  And SAE entering the territory will be chased out.  Mine just swim away as they're not aggressive fish at all and often outpace the shark.

You have a decent sized tank so I'd not rule it out.  SAE need to be in a group however and I'd recommend sourcing them first and at a size larger than the shark and adding a shark later if this is what you really want to do.  The shark should then be more accepting of the fish already in the tank.
 
Mine was fine until reaching around four inches long, that's when she started to get a bit stroppy.  Mass wise she's about twice the size of the SAE as she's a lot deeper and wider bodied.
 
Beautiful tank by the way.  Once the plants fully establish they should help bring the Nitrates down.  Perhaps consider some floating plants as well.
 
The SAE will not touch the algae on the glass.  I doubt they'll eat brown algae.  Mine have only eaten green hair and black beard.

 

[Hathaway]

Hopefully the plants will help on the nitrate front as time goes on. I've got some frogbit and I should be getting some more tomorrow.

How many SAE do you need to have to keep them happy? I seem to read a few conflicting statements. Though I guess if they're not willing to eat the algae I have currently then perhaps it's best to steer clear altogether?

 

[Far_King]

To be fair, looking at the pictures, your algae situation doesn't seem bad at all.  The glass can be cleaned and the plants will clear up.
 
I have four, and only once have I seen one that's stressed and lost it's colour which was back the next day.  
 
Six or more is generally recommended : http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/crossocheilus-atrilimes/

 

[Munroco]

I really like that background, great looking tank

 

[Byron]

The SAE are a social fish and thus will be best in a group, as Far_King has noted.  This means a group of six or so, and they get to 6 inches, so that is an impact on the biology which is not going to help the nitrate and algae issues.  And as noted, the SAE are not going to deal with this problem anyway, so why risk it?
 
New tanks are not yet established biologically so it is easier for various types of algae to appear.  Once you work out the balance this will be easier.  Your nitrates being so high are certainly an issue, both for the algae and the fish.  If your source water is also on the hard side as opposed to being soft, this too encourages algae.
 
As for your plant additives, I would re-assess these.  Excel is a liquid carbon (so called) additive that must be added regularly and daily or it is not going to provide much.  But this means the other nutrients must also be present, and they may not be; and the light must be balanced, and we know nothing of the light specs.  And beyond this, I personally would not use a toxic chemical like Excel in a tank with fish.  This substance is not needed for good plant growth, and it is a real risk.

 

[Hathaway]

I'm happy to stop using the Excel if there's a risk to the fish, I certainly wasn't aware of that. What other nutrients would be required that I may not have via the Flourish and Tetra Crypto substrate tablets? So far the plants have been in the tank since November and seem to be doing/growing well, only with the very odd casualty along the way.
The lighting is standard for the Juwel Rio 300, 4 x 54 watt High-lite T5's, 2 of which are cool white (6500k) and 2 warm white (4000k).

 

[Byron]

I'm happy to stop using the Excel if there's a risk to the fish, I certainly wasn't aware of that. What other nutrients would be required that I may not have via the Flourish and Tetra Crypto substrate tablets? So far the plants have been in the tank since November and seem to be doing/growing well, only with the very odd casualty along the way.
The lighting is standard for the Juwel Rio 300, 4 x 54 watt High-lite T5's, 2 of which are cool white (6500k) and 2 warm white (4000k).

 
Now we're beginning to see the cause of the algae.  The light is very bright.  The spectrum is very good (I personally like this sort of combo of cool and warm white) but four T5 tubes is putting out a lot of intensity.  Can you remove or otherwise turn off two of the four tubes?  Some fixtures will, some won't.
 
With the light, you will need adequate nutrients.  Plants can only photosynthesise (= grow) if they have sufficient light intensity and all necessary nutrients are present.  The light drives photosynthesis, but without adequate nutrients the plants slow and may even stop photosynthesis, and that is when algae takes advantage.  Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is a complete liquid preparation.  Divide the recommended weekly dose by two or three and dose on alternate days; I found this helped with algae, though we still have this intense light.  You could also look into getting the Flourish Trace, using it alternately.  I experimented with this, and again found the plants improved a bit but algae was even less trouble.
 
A quick word on the Excel.  This is composed of glutaraldehyde and water, and glutaraldehyde is a toxic disinfectant used in hospitals, antifreeze, embalming fluid...you get the picture.  While some aquarists do use this, one has to remember that anything added to the water is going to get inside the fish, and in my view (which I know is not shared by everyone) there is no logic in using such a chemical when it is not really needed in the first place.  Aside from this, even at the recommended dose it will kill some species of plants (Vallisneria seems affected, there are others), and should it be overdosed, it has the ability to kill plants, bacteria and fish.  It is after all used to kill bacteria in hospitals, etc.
 
Byron.

 

[Hathaway]

The lights are integrated into the lid so cannot be removed. I have the option of only having 2 lights on at a time, but it creates odd lighting, as it's either 2 in front or 2 in the back. I've resorted instead to having them on less during the day and I have noticed an improvement in the algae situation already - we actually had a thread discussing this a while back Byron and your advice helped at the time. I had a massive hair algae situation on top of other issues and this has since cleared up almost entirely. I did research however and it seemed that the (roughly) 2.4 watts per gallon that my setup has was generally regarded as fine. Since I'm still in early days, having started in November, I'll monitor the situation and see how I get on.
Really the algae issue isn't a massive one or of great concern to me, it's not taking over the tank as I initially feared a few weeks back. It's one more of inconvenience. I'll wipe the glass but the following day or day after it'll have returned. I can keep on top of it, no doubt about that, but if something in the tank can eat it and stay on top of it, then that'd be great. The brown algae on the slate is a little tougher to get off though, even with heavy scrubbing, so would certainly appreciate something feeding on that.
 
Since SAE's have been disregarded, are there any other suggestions aside from Nerite snails? Assuming the snails will be happy feasting on it that is.

 

[Byron]

Last issue first...nothing is going to handle algae that is increasing (it will be, believe me) due to the lighting/nutrient imbalance.  Snails help, some fish might eat this or that type, etc, but these are band-aids that will not overcome the algae much less rectify the actual problem.  Snails for example do eat algae, and everything they find in the algae mats (the biofilm has all sorts of microscopic critters as well as algae); I have hundreds in my tanks, well over a thousand Malaysian Livebearing Snails in each of my largest tanks, but these cannot begin to deal with problem algae (which I have had); they help in keeping it under control, but even so if I get the balance off it will return.
 
Second last issue...cleaning the inside of the tank glass is a component of regular maintenance, usually during the weekly water change.  I do this in every tank, the front glass minimum, sometimes the sides, and I never see algae on the glass.  But if I neglect it for two weeks, I clearly see its beginnings, at least in some tanks that have more light (the dual tube larger tanks).  But when it is returning the day following, or even two or three days, this is a sure sign that the balance is out.  Algae on the glass should not return within a week once it is removed.
 
By brown algae, I assume this is the form of brush algae that many call "brown," as opposed to diatoms which easily come off with your fingertip.  I have fought this a few times, again it is the light/nutrient balance.  I had this algae increase in one tank, so I cut back the Flourish Comp from two to one dose weekly, and it disappeared.  I tried this a few months later with the same result, so I know it was the excess fert doing this.  I have a good cover of floating plants in this tank.
 
And floating plants will help reduce you light and thus algae too, to some extent.  As will reduced photoperiods.  But if the light is too intense to begin with, you are fighting a losing battle.  I would turn off two of the four tubes; have one 6500K and one 4000K on.  I think light is best over the rear half as opposed to the front half, so use the rear tubes.  Once you get used to it you probably won't notice it.  If you really want to head off problem algae, this is your only option (other than different lighting).  I had a T5 fixture with two 54w tubes over my 5-foot 115g for a week, then it went back; it was simply too much light.
 
The 2.5 watts per gallon is a completely useless measurement here.  This "guide" of watts per gallon had some benefit back when the only lighting we had was the old type T12 [predecessor to the T8] tubes.  But with the technological improvements today, watts is useless as an indicator of intensity, except when comparing identical tubes/bulbs.  Example, a 13w Daylight CFL bulb will be brighter light than a 9w Daylight CFL bulb because you are comparing identical bulbs.  Watts is the unit of measurement for the amount of power a bulb or tube requires to emit light.  The light emitted can vary significantly.  I still use T8 tubes, and the ones today use 32w (4-foot tubes) yet they are more intense light than the older type that used 40w for the same length.
 
Byron.