Aggression Issues

[tenohfive]

Recently my T.Ellioti has shot up in size, and he's become alot more boisterous - he's almost constantly bickering with my C.Sajica, and I'm worried its going to end badly as its a bit more vicious (and more constant) than the old occasional flaring.

Because of this and because the tanks become a bit manky with algae (reflectors on T5's pointing down I think, going to put on other way round to reduce light) I've decided to have a rescape and a proper clean out. I've removed all the decor, scrubbed it all with tank water and sand and thats now sitting outside ready for me to plan my rescape.

In order to hoover up all the crud thats come loose with removing the decor I've removed about 70-80% of the tank water. I've just added 10-15% (of the total volume) in cold water, and I'm planning on increasing it incrementally over the course of the next few hours. I've not got a thermometer to drop in there (only a stick on one which is at the top where its no use) so I'm going to have to do it more roughly than normal. Its a 180L tank and I've got (for now) a 250W and a 200W heaters in there. How long do you reckon I should leave it before I add another 20% ?

Once its all sorted, the tanks looking nice and (fingers crossed) the fish have settled down and relaxed, I'll stick some pic's up - something I've been meaning to do for a long time.

Cheers
Chris

 

[minxfishy]

How are you adding the water? Via bucket? or Hose? If its by buckets, alternative one hot, one cold. If its via hose, can you not do it via a mixer tap and get the correct temp going back in. If not, then add some every 30 minutes or so to allow the heaters to warm it up a bit. A temp drop of 5-6c isnt going to bother them much.

 

[tenohfive]

Running a hose from the outside tap and the kitchen taps won't work with the hose.

I read on here (many many moons ago) that it was a risk using hot water as its been through the boiler and may contain something harmful....possibly copper or something?

Will add 10% hourly unless I hear anything to the contrary then. I'm not fussed about 5 or 6c, but realistically cold tap waters around 10c ish and tank waters around 25c, so need to get rough proportions right. And guessing how long the water (once added) will take to heat up is a bit of a guess on my part.

 

[minxfishy]

Well I always use hot water from my taps when Im re-filling as I fill from the mixer via hose without any problems. Unless you have a particulary large amount of copper in your pipes then I dont see it being a problem, I live in an old house with ancient pipes, cant say its ever bothered any fish, including shrimps.

But anyway, look forward to seeing it finished

 

[tenohfive]

Makes life easier then, I'll lob in a few buckets of alternating warm and cold water. Wasn't sure if it was true or not but never had any reason (before now) to bother using warm water.

 

[tenohfive]

Okay, tank has been rescaped - not hugely different to before, but slightly. My decent camera's batteries have just died and I can't be bothered going to a petrol station to get more, so I took a video on my rather poor quality mobile phone - should give a flavour though.

I've not kept Ellioti before, but he's become much more colourful at the same time as becoming much more aggressive, so I suspect he's hit maturity.

Since the rescape whilst I can't see any clear territories established (just when I think I have, the blue acara comes barelling in and chases the other two out) the Ellioti and the Sajica are still bickering. The Ellioti - whilst being slightly smaller, and seeming to have the worse of the fights - is generally the aggressor, and doesn't like to end it. The video below shows some of what I'm talking about (and if nothing else gives a pretty good view of the tank.)

I'm inclined at the moment to sit tight, watch carefully and see if they do establish their own territories. In addition I've got some sort of plant (no idea what) that seems to grow like crazy in another tank, so I'm thinking about adding some of that to create a couple of curtains once I know where the territories are. Have a look at the vid, and any other suggestions are welcome.

[URL="http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcH1ohRF0hA"]http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcH1ohRF0hA[/URL]

 

[minxfishy]

Looks good mate, I would add some plants though, like you say, it would break up the territories and line of sight issues. Ive found adding a lot of plants (albeit fake) has certainly calmed my lot down.

 

[tenohfive]

Will do that then. Have been watching them, and the blue acara and sajica have both claimed their little part of the world (not ideal - acara in the bottom of the bogwood pile, sajica in the top) but the ellioti doesn't seem to have any particular space as his own - he just goes wherever he wants. Which is great from one point of view, as it means he's out in the open and he's beautiful. But it means when the sajica comes out theres bickering.

I'm thinking that I'll put a curtain of plants from the bogwood pile forwards, most of the way to the front of the tank. Then another by the pink rock cave (again, running from back to front of the tank) to create some obvious divisions. From looking at the video, does that sound like it'll work?

 

[tenohfive]

Am starting to get concerned now. I've rescaped the tank, added a big clump of plants about midway along the tank that should break up eye lines a bit but I'm not seeing any improvement. And just to make things worse, the acara's aggression towards the sajica has increased. Its not unusual to see both ellioti and acara chasing the sajica round the tank together. Even my OH (whose rarely interested in my fish) has commented on how the sajica's colouration has changed, which is saying something.

I know from previous aggression between the acara and the sajica that once the sajica's got himself very well established in a territory, he will defend it. Unfortunately he's claimed the upper half of a bogwood pile since the rescape, which isn't quite ideal as a) the acara has chosen the lower half as part of his territory, along with a rock pile midway along the tank and b) the acara (and of course the smaller ellioti) can both get in there.

I'm now considering my options. The usual ways of sorting territorial disputes amongst CA cichlids that I've picked up have been rescaping, breaking up lines of sight, temporarily removing the most aggressive one or as a last resort permanently rehoming one or other. I'm reluctant to go for the last, and the only thing I've not tried is a temporary move.

If I were to temporarily move one, which should I remove - the acara or the ellioti? Or both? I could potentially setup temporary 'tanks' (80L water butts) for awhile, either one each or one between them. And if I were to do this how long should I do it for?

I'm running out of ideas so any other suggestions are also appreciated.
Thanks
Chris

 

[tenohfive]

Quick bump...need some opinions urgently.

Unless I hear different in the next couple of hours, I'm moving the Ellioti out and into a 65L tank for the next week, and combining that with a minor rescape. Sajicas getting it both barrels, he's he contorting himself vertically, hiding behind the filter inlet and if he dares move out of there (and even sometimes when he doesn't) he gets grief from both the ellioti and the acara.

 

[minxfishy]

Hi Chris, sorry you havent had an answer.

My option would be to remove the aggressor, for a few days max, then do another re-scape, making clear defined territories, 3 or 4 minimum, leaving swimming space out front. Whilst you are doing the re-scape, take out the Acara and Sajica (bag them seperately), then after your done, put the least dominant in, allow half and hour at least before then putting the next one back and finally a few hours later, put the Ellioti back in. This isnt guaranteed to work, as you know, it may not and as a last resort you either need to ugrade to a larger tank to allow for more room/territories or re-home. Putting them in a larger tank would also allow for some dithers, as these could help, I found adding dithers (albeit in the shape of large rainbows) to my tank, it has helped alot with aggression from the GT/Oscar, as they help take their minds off either other and gives them something else to chase occassionally. (For anyone reading this, I know the rainbows will eventually need to be removed, although the Oscar loves them, but that could all change). See my tank in the sig, thats heavily planted and as you can see leaves space out front, but in amongst all those plants are lots of caves/bogwood etc giving lots of territories.

 

[tenohfive]

Cheers Mags. Will give that a bash.

 

[tenohfive]

FINALLY caught the sodding Ellioti and moved him into a tank in another room. Took me about 15 minutes and had to empty most of the bogwood etc to get him out, so did a minor rescape at the same time. The bogwood pile is now much more open, with the plan being that the acara (who likes to feel enclosed) will go somewhere else, leaving the bog wood pile for the sajica. So far the sajicas in the bogwood pile, the acaras at a rock cave and theres plenty of planting in between. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

The Ellioti isn't happy in his new home, but he'll have to manage for the time being. Once he gets used to it I've no doubt he'll bounce back.

Will have to watch closely, fingers crossed that the sajica and the acara get themselves established in different parts of the tank. If so, in a weeks time I'll add the ellioti. If when he goes back he's still causing trouble I'll have no choice but to rehome him - out of the two the sajica (whilst less colourful) is a fantastic little character and I couldn't rehome him. And I can't afford to upgrade tank size anytime soon, much as I'd like to.

 

[snowflake311]

sorry this is off subject but minxfishy you keep your severum in a planted tank? He does not bother your plants?

 

[meguro]

I think they're all fake plants. But some might be real?

Looks good mate, I would add some plants though, like you say, it would break up the territories and line of sight issues. Ive found adding a lot of plants (albeit fake) has certainly calmed my lot down.