Advice Needed Restarting 50G Tank

Jonny_russell · Feb 20, 2010

Ok

I have a 50 gallon tank that i am restarting its been idle for over a year (thanks to a combination of a new baby and working away from home)and its only been cleaned and refilled this morning :fun:

I have been down the traditional guppy route and i'm looking for something different.

- i am leaning towards a larger species but simply cant decide which ones would be safe and practical (there are a lot of conflicting and confusing articles out there) and some advice about species and stocking levels would be welcome and also the difficulties of keeping them

- i would also like a decent 'cleaner' fish

- i currently only have an internal Fluval 4 filter but i am planning to add an external filter (should i keep the fluval in addition?) any recommendations?

waterdrop · Feb 20, 2010

Hi Jonny and welcome to TFF!

Only got a moment here but just thought I'd make a quick welcome. I recommend you plan to have a nice long "stocking" discussion while waiting out a fishless cycle. We find the timing is perfect for this - it takes anywhere from 3 weeks to a little over 2 months to ensure are really solid, well-cycled filter and during that time you can really go back and forth a lot with a lot of experienced members here to hone in on just the right "bigger" fish for your 50G.

Even prior to that, if you're patient, you can really learn a lot about external filters both here and in the hardware section prior to actually starting the fishless cycle, or you could kick it off with the little internal and then have the external join in after you make your choice. Rena, Eheim, Tetratec/Marineland and Fluval are the major 4 contenders we see discussed here contending for best features in external cannister filters. If you can afford them, external cannisters are among the best forms of filters, exceeded only in a few regards by big sumps (not really appropriate for a 50g anyway) and matched only in a few parameters sometimes by HOB filters. So you clearly on to the right type of filter. The sizing of the filter and the choosing of feature and cost level will be the work of it for you. Try checking the actual manufacturer websites for the real flow rate specs as opposed to the recommended tank size as a starting task. I suspect Rena XP2/3, Eheim Pro II model line, Tetratec EX1200 will possibly become contenders...

~~waterdrop~~

Jonny_russell · Feb 20, 2010

cheers mate

sorry i wasnt clear about the tank set up

when i said its been idle i meant it has been fish free (apart from one indestructible sucking loach) and when i said i filled it it was in effect approximately a 60% water change.

so will this mean the time-scale can be accelerated a bit?

Shelby · Feb 20, 2010

Someone is bound to ask...

When was the last time you had fish other than the loach in there?

How long has the tank been set up?

Do you have a test kit? Most on here recommend the liquid API Master kit.

Assuming the loach has been in there for an extended period of time, the filter is old and not new and has been running all this time, I don't see why the process would not be faster. I would think there has to be some bacteria in the filter from food and waste from the loach?

waterdrop · Feb 20, 2010

Agree with Shelby. Since it turns out its been a running, not empty, tank, with the filter in operation all along, the correct two species of bacteria should be already established and the only problem will be that they've died down to match the one loach in the tank. Hopefully the filter media was cleaned in tank, not tap water?

With a neglected tank (if that was the case) it may take a few more good deep gravel cleanings with a good gravel-cleaning siphon before the substrate gets properly free of excess nitrates(NO3.) What types of media are in the filter? The test kit will be needed to determine how the filter is doing.

~~waterdrop~~

Jonny_russell · Feb 21, 2010

waterdrop said:
Agree with Shelby. Since it turns out its been a running, not empty, tank, with the filter in operation all along, the correct two species of bacteria should be already established and the only problem will be that they've died down to match the one loach in the tank. Hopefully the filter media was cleaned in tank, not tap water?

With a neglected tank (if that was the case) it may take a few more good deep gravel cleanings with a good gravel-cleaning siphon before the substrate gets properly free of excess nitrates(NO3.) What types of media are in the filter? The test kit will be needed to determine how the filter is doing.

~~waterdrop~~

yes the sponges (the only media present in the filter) were cleaned in the tank.......they are however very old at least two years !!!!

the tank was neglected when i was away from home for close to a year (the wife had zero interest in it the loach as i said is indestructible and as long as it still looked clean she left it well alone)

i did the second deap gravel clean this morning although i think it best i keep this up for a good few days yet........its not good !!!!

so i suspect that the process might not be as quick as i first hoped.

i am picking a test kit up next week and hopefully the external filter (when i decide on which one)

so by next weekend i hope to have the external filter up and running in addition to the original fluval 4

and i should have a picture of how bad things are with the test kit.

do you think i should continue with large water changes (i did a 60% yesterday)?

maybe it would of been better to strip everything out and start from scratch?

and the loach is still as happy a pick in you know what ............

he's only 2.5 inches and has 50 gallons of muck to plodge around in.

oh in total the tank has been running for about 4 years with the last year or so it being a loach bachelor pad

waterdrop · Feb 21, 2010

this loach story gets better with each telling...

OK, my personal attitude would be to consider this a great learning opportunity (treat yourself as a beginner even though we know you're not) for the power of good gravel-cleaning-siphonings. Your tank may have a small bit of "old tank syndrome" but of course the only fish that could get hurt by that is the loach and he's already proved himself to be tough as nails, and you've already done at least one large water change, so the size and freq of your water changes may not matter much.. still, you could just have fun doing whatever size clean and change whenever you had some time to do it and felt like it (ie. possibly some smaller and more frequent ones, which is what's good for old tank syndrome where trace substances have become too high and you want them to go slowly down)... and watch as the tank slowly become cleaner and clearer and more beautiful and this will serve as gut lesson on how good substrate-cleaning-water-changes are as the primary tool of good tank maintenance.. and you will forever after be a better fishkeeper.. there! isn't that a wonderful little scenerio?

~~waterdrop~~

OldMan47 · Feb 21, 2010

I read it as the chance that your filter is ready to take on some minor biological load. To me that means a slow addition of biological load while monitoring your resulting ammonia and nitrites. Please keep us informed of the tank's progress so that we can help, as the situation presents itself, to keep your cycle on track.

Jonny_russell · Feb 22, 2010

ok i got the API master kit and these are the first results

Test 1 (pm)
PH 7.4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
temp 74 f

test 2 (am)
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

test 3 (pm)
PH 7.4
ammonia 0.25
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

test 4 (am)
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

test 5 (pm)
PH 7.4
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

test 6 (am)
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

test 7 (pm)
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

i was a bit surprised to be honest, i was expecting worse....will see what tomorrow brings

still cant decide on the external filter though

Fluval 205 - 680 lph - media included £70
Ehiem Ecco Pro 2034 - 500 lph - media included £79

or maybe an Ehiem classic.............

waterdrop · Feb 22, 2010

What may happen though is that the 0.25ppm trace of ammonia may persist for a while as you keep cleaning up after the long neglect. But now with the kit you may be able to see when you make progress to zero ppm.

In my opinion you have to try and make yourself realize how long you'll be living and working with this filter and try not to make price such a big thing if you can make yourself do that. Each of the brands has a band of advocates among the members so sometimes comparisons get confusing as different posts pile on.

I did a lot of research into the Eheim lines before I got my particular Eheim and I have the following comments: The Ecco line is not as well respected among hobbyists because it is made "out of house" with just the Eheim name on it whereas the other lines are in-house Germany and felt to be of higher quality. Among the in-house lines, the Pro I, the Pro II and the Pro 3 lines are considered the best. The Thermo versions should be steered clear of because of a sensor issue. The wet/dry models are overkill for freshwater beginners so should be steered clear of. This leaves the decision between the Classic line (bare bones filtering without convenience features) or whatever "Pro" model fits your flow rate and feature goals. With a 50G you are into the Classic 2217 or larger and the Pro II and larger models.

I'll try to get a chance to make comments on other brands later. WD

Jonny_russell · Feb 23, 2010

waterdrop said:
What may happen though is that the 0.25ppm trace of ammonia may persist for a while as you keep cleaning up after the long neglect. But now with the kit you may be able to see when you make progress to zero ppm.

In my opinion you have to try and make yourself realize how long you'll be living and working with this filter and try not to make price such a big thing if you can make yourself do that. Each of the brands has a band of advocates among the members so sometimes comparisons get confusing as different posts pile on.

I did a lot of research into the Eheim lines before I got my particular Eheim and I have the following comments: The Ecco line is not as well respected among hobbyists because it is made "out of house" with just the Eheim name on it whereas the other lines are in-house Germany and felt to be of higher quality. Among the in-house lines, the Pro I, the Pro II and the Pro 3 lines are considered the best. The Thermo versions should be steered clear of because of a sensor issue. The wet/dry models are overkill for freshwater beginners so should be steered clear of. This leaves the decision between the Classic line (bare bones filtering without convenience features) or whatever "Pro" model fits your flow rate and feature goals. With a 50G you are into the Classic 2217 or larger and the Pro II and larger models.

I'll try to get a chance to make comments on other brands later. WD

cheers mate

i will steer away from the ecco then

would you say getting the largest lph is best?

ive just got round to convincing the wife an external is the way to go (the tank is set into the chimney breast so some hefty drilling is needed through the side wall to allow access for the pipes........now i have to convince her to get the biggest possible filter and assure her getting the biggest is not just the usual male obsession :lol:

happy days

oh and any views onthis one

Eheim External Filter Professionel Complete Special Edition

ian · Feb 23, 2010

why is the 'wife' the hardest part of this hobby!

good luck mate :good:

Jonny_russell · Feb 23, 2010

ianho said:
why is the 'wife' the hardest part of this hobby!

good luck mate

aye it looks like this is going to cost me at least a weekend spa break !!!

oh and the am test

nitrite 0
ammonia 0.25
nitrate 0

Jonny_russell · Feb 23, 2010

ok i plumped for a Fluval 305, the local pet shop had it on sale for £70.......seemed like a bargain, the 1000 LPH should give me slightly over the recommended 5x

just need to get through the side of the chimney breast now...................