Acquired 5 Gal Tank Need Help

[fluttermoth]

That's a lot of questions I'll try to cover everything important!
 
I wouldn't bother separating the fish; the ammonia produced by a few small tetras will be negligible, compared to the plec. Get the plants straight into the tank with the fish; they will help absorb some ammonia and nitrite to stop it building up. I also wouldn't bother trying to fishless cycle the small tank (unless you want to do one for the experience). Once you have one cycled filter, if you need another cycled tank, you can just take a some media from the cycled filter and put that in the new filter.
 
Use the plant fertilizer according to the instructions. The Nutrafin Cycle is unlikely to do any good, as it doesn't contain the correct bacteria, but you can use it, again according to the instructions, if you have it, as it won't do any harm.
 
You need to test the water in the tank at least once a day, to monitor the levels of ammonia and nitrite, so you know how much water to change.
 
The blackness from the carbon pouch was probably because it split or wasn't rinsed properly; carbon can be very dusty.
 
Cleaning a filter is really quite simple. Do it once a week, when you're doing a water change. Once you've taken the water out of the tank into your bucket or jug, or whatever it is you're using, take all the media out of the filter, swish it around in the old water to remove the worst of the 'gunk' and pop it back in the filter. The bacteria will survive for quite a time out of water, but you don't want to ever let it dry out. It's best to get it back in the filter again straight away.

 

[Vindicare066]

That's a lot of questions

I'll try to cover everything important!
 
I wouldn't bother separating the fish; the ammonia produced by a few small tetras will be negligible, compared to the plec. Get the plants straight into the tank with the fish; they will help absorb some ammonia and nitrite to stop it building up. I also wouldn't bother trying to fishless cycle the small tank (unless you want to do one for the experience). Once you have one cycled filter, if you need another cycled tank, you can just take a some media from the cycled filter and put that in the new filter.
 
Use the plant fertilizer according to the instructions. The Nutrafin Cycle is unlikely to do any good, as it doesn't contain the correct bacteria, but you can use it, again according to the instructions, if you have it, as it won't do any harm.
 
You need to test the water in the tank at least once a day, to monitor the levels of ammonia and nitrite, so you know how much water to change.
 
The blackness from the carbon pouch was probably because it split or wasn't rinsed properly; carbon can be very dusty.
 
Cleaning a filter is really quite simple. Do it once a week, when you're doing a water change. Once you've taken the water out of the tank into your bucket or jug, or whatever it is you're using, take all the media out of the filter, swish it around in the old water to remove the worst of the 'gunk' and pop it back in the filter. The bacteria will survive for quite a time out of water, but you don't want to ever let it dry out. It's best to get it back in the filter again straight away.

 
Great thank you! Sorry for the bombardment of questions, they all just started flowing out as  I was reading the advice given. 
 
Okay! great I have made little notes on my calendar to remind me of the filter maintenance, adding bacteria etc...
 
So because nutrafin doesn't have the correct bacteria, what would be a good alternative tank starter product that will provide me with the correct bacteria? I will use the Nutrafin Cycle up according to the instructions, however, going forward, now that I will have a few tanks kicking around I would like to make sure I have a product that will help me establish the tank fairly quickly.

 

[Ch4rlie]

So because nutrafin doesn't have the correct bacteria, what would be a good alternative tank starter product that will provide me with the correct bacteria? I will use the Nutrafin Cycle up according to the instructions, however, going forward, now that I will have a few tanks kicking around I would like to make sure I have a product that will help me establish the tank fairly quickly.
 

 
 
Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrfying Bacteria are proven to work for seeding tanks for cycling.

 

[Vindicare066]

Alright I will look into those two, I haven't quite decided which one to go with just yet though.
 
On another note. So I have been doing the daily recommended 20% water changes in the 5 Gallon tank, I have been using a vacuum to extract the water and remove some waste debris from the substrate. I want to run by everyone the results I got from two tests I took of the water. The first was before the water change, and the second was 1 hour after the water change. 
 
 Before WC:
 
Ph= 6.0
Ammonia= 0.50ppm
Nitrites = 1.00ppm
Nitrates 0.0ppm
 
After WC:
 
Ph 6.6
Ammonia= not quite 0.25 yet also not quite 0.50ppm
Nitrites=0.25ppm
I didnt test Nitrates as I had none prior
 
So I am a little concerned about my Ph level, considering my Ph from the tap is 7.6. I know tetras prefer acidic water but seeing it go all the way down to fluctuate between 6.0 to 6.6 is that normal?
 
My second concern is, even after the Water Change, there was no real change in the ammonia readings at all, and if it did, only by a small margin. Again is this normal or should I be taking out more water?
 
Seeing the nitrates drop was certainly reassuring though. 

 

[StevenF]

 
I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you here, Steven, sorry!
 
I would definitely move the fish to the larger tank,as soon as possible.

By the time you get the larger aquarium and have it all set up the 5 gallon may be partially cycled.  I would rather have fish in a partially cycled tank than in a larger none cycled tank.  Yes the ammonia levels will be lower in a larger tank but in all likelihood the fish will be exposed to it longer which may be just as bad.  There is no way to know which is better.  
 

 
 
Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tim's One and Only Nitrfying Bacteria are proven to work for seeding tanks for cycling.

No mater which bacterial supplement you buy you will find some comments on the web that it failed.  Even with the fish less cycle using only ammonia many people get it cycled in 2 weeks but occasionally you hear about people that are 4 weeks in and the tank has not yet started to cycle.   I suspect the quality of the water is a big component of the variability that you see.  Doing an ammonia cycle in a tank full of RO water is not going to work because there is no Phosphorous in the water.  All living things need Phosphorous and if there is none in the water the bacterial supplement will not work.  That is why I advised  applying the fertilizer to the water.  If the water is very soft it will correct for that and help the tank to cycle.  even if your bacterial supplement doesn't have a critical type of bacterial, your tank will eventual get it simply because bacterial are floating in the air.
 

 
Ph= 6.0
Ammonia= 0.50ppm
Nitrites = 1.00ppm
Nitrates 0.0ppm
 
After WC:
 
Ph 6.6
Ammonia= not quite 0.25 yet also not quite 0.50ppm
Nitrites=0.25ppm
I didnt test Nitrates as I had none prior
 
So I am a little concerned about my Ph level, considering my Ph from the tap is 7.6. I know tetras prefer acidic water but seeing it go all the way down to fluctuate between 6.0 to 6.6 is that normal?
 
My second concern is, even after the Water Change, there was no real change in the ammonia readings at all, and if it did, only by a small margin. Again is this normal or should I be taking out more water?

While the ammonia didn't go down the nitrite did.  Either you ammonia reading is wrong or more was released from the substrate after you put in the new water.  Or maybe the ammonia lock you added is affecting the reading in some way.  Either way the fact you measured nitrite is a good indication that the tank is partially cycled.    Hopefully you will see nitrate soon.
 
PH can move quickly right after a water change.  The nitrite and ammonia in the tank will affect PH.  Based on my understandiing nitrite will lower the PH while Ammonia will increase it.  Also when you stir up the water some CO2 will get mixed in which will also want to lower PH.  You can add a couple of  decorative snail shells to your aquarium to help stabilize the the PH and increase the KH of your water.  Most fish stores have them and they don't cost much when the water gets acidic the shells start to dissolve and they will then push PH back up.   The shells should easily last a year.  I have a couple in my aquarium that are about 3 years old.
 

 
 
I only know of one instance where I saw the filter and its media removed from the water and that was when he had an issue with the carbon filter? (small pouch containing black stones) a few weeks ago when it turned the tank nearly all black. Out of curiosity can anyone tell me why that happened? Also when it comes to maintenance on the filter motor, the sponge and the other filters (Carbon and bio filters?), how do you safely clean them? Is there a link or video you would recommend? Also if you remove the filter or the sponge/ other filter packs from the tanks water and have it sit on say a counter in the open air will that kill the bacteria colonies? I would rather not make a simple mistake that adds 3 weeks onto my cycle over a silly mistake.

Use Chlorine free water to clean the filter.  The purpose of cleaning is just to remove excess sediment that may have accumulated in it.  Filters typically have 2 types of media.  A material in which bacterial will grow on and carbon.  The material for the bacteria should be just lightly rinsed.   The Carbon is an absorbent that will soak up organic materials and some gases like ammonia from the water.  Eventually the carbon gets full and it will have to be replaced.  I don't know of any way that will tell you when the carbon is full.  You might just want to replace it more frequently while the tank is still cycling.  And then less often when it has stabilized.  Eventually you might find that your aquarium will be stable even without the carbon.  I am currently not using carbon in my filter because I have a well growing plants They do everything the carbon would do. if your still have the documentation that came with your filter it might find  some useful information in it..
 
The bacterial are fairly resilient and most will just go dormant if they dry out.   Also keep in mind that the bacteria growth is not limited to inside the filter.  Bacterial will also grow in your substrate, on the glass and on your water heater.  In short it is everywhere.

 

[Vindicare066]

By the time you get the larger aquarium and have it all set up the 5 gallon may be partially cycled.  I would rather have fish in a partially cycled tank than in a larger none cycled tank.  Yes the ammonia levels will be lower in a larger tank but in all likelihood the fish will be exposed to it longer which may be just as bad.  There is no way to know which is better.  
 
So I definitely think I am going to have to put a lot of thought into whether or not I should move the fish around. I certainly see the merits of the 30 Gallon, but the points you raised here, have been on my mind for sometime and certainly present a good case to keep the fish in the 5 gallon. As soon as I get the 30 Gallon I will make the decision.
 
Just add something, I have recent picked up another plant for the 5 Gallon tank, 1 amazon sword plant, so that should hopefully help with the tank.
 
While the ammonia didn't go down the nitrite did.  Either you ammonia reading is wrong or more was released from the substrate after you put in the new water.  Or maybe the ammonia lock you added is affecting the reading in some way.  Either way the fact you measured nitrite is a good indication that the tank is partially cycled.    Hopefully you will see nitrate soon. 
 
So I did a third water test last night at around 11pm this was about 6 hours after the 2nd water change. I wanted to see how rapidly the Ph was changing in the tank, and if I could get a more accurate reading of the ammonia and nitrite levels. Here were the are the readings.
 
Ph= 6.0
Ammonia=0.25ppm
Nitrites=0.50ppm
 
So the bacteria are certainly at work in the tank, as these results differ from the second one. I also want to note that I added another 5ml dosage of bacteria, when I was reading the articles on Rescuing a Aquarium Out of Control Parts 1 and 2, they said it is never bad to have to much bacteria in the tank. (I ended up picking up a bottle of TSS+ as it is readily available for me).
 
PH can move quickly right after a water change.  The nitrite and ammonia in the tank will affect PH.  Based on my understandiing nitrite will lower the PH while Ammonia will increase it.  Also when you stir up the water some CO2 will get mixed in which will also want to lower PH.  You can add a couple of  decorative snail shells to your aquarium to help stabilize the the PH and increase the KH of your water.  Most fish stores have them and they don't cost much when the water gets acidic the shells start to dissolve and they will then push PH back up.   The shells should easily last a year.  I have a couple in my aquarium that are about 3 years old.
 
So I think the change in PH could be a combination of a few things. In addition to everything you just mentioned, the tank does have 2 ~8'' long pieces of drift wood in it, which I know leeches out tannic acid, now the water hasn't changed to the tea staining colour, however, I have read that the leeching can last several months if not years, so this certainly could be a factor. I removed one of the logs just to see if this will improve the Ph. Regarding the Shells, there were 2 small shells in there for a while, I have just added 3 more conch like shells a few days ago. These are shells I picked up off the various beaches I have been to in the US and Canada, they were boiled prior to being placed in the tank. 
 
Regarding the CO2, would a bubbler or air stone be a good investment for this tank? I have 3 plants in it already, but the way the jet is positioned in the tank (1 inch below surface of water) I feel like the position affects the amount of water disturbance and oxygen transfer between the water and the air. I have position the Jet to aim upwards to cause ripples in the water, but even then it seems a little weak. I will take a picture and upload it later on to show you what I mean. 
 
Use Chlorine free water to clean the filter.  The purpose of cleaning is just to remove excess sediment that may have accumulated in it.  Filters typically have 2 types of media.  A material in which bacterial will grow on and carbon.  The material for the bacteria should be just lightly rinsed.   The Carbon is an absorbent that will soak up organic materials and some gases like ammonia from the water.  Eventually the carbon gets full and it will have to be replaced.  I don't know of any way that will tell you when the carbon is full.  You might just want to replace it more frequently while the tank is still cycling.  And then less often when it has stabilized.  Eventually you might find that your aquarium will be stable even without the carbon.  I am currently not using carbon in my filter because I have a well growing plants They do everything the carbon would do. if your still have the documentation that came with your filter it might find  some useful information in it..
 
I will keep this in mind regarding Chlorine free water, I figured when I do my daily water change, I can rinse the filter, the carbon packet and ceramic biofilter in the siphoning bucket. Now I think the carbon filter needs replacing, its been in the tank since it was first purchased, and when at the LFS I learned these carbon packets need to be replaced ever 2-4 weeks, so this packet is certainly pushing its forth week. I just purchased replacements for it yesterday. I noticed that you can buy loose activated carbon that isn't in premade packets, when carbon is in this form can you mix it with substrate? I have no intention of getting it as I my tank uses premade carbon packets, but I am curious how you use this in a tank. 

 

[StevenF]

Regarding the CO2, would a bubbler or air stone be a good investment for this tank?
 
 

If possible raise the outlet pipe of your filter to  the surface of the water.  That hopefully will drag air into the water.  The might be all you need to saturate the water with air.  However that said may people have their pump outlet pipe positioned just like you have yours and that seems to work well.  You can add a pump and air stone.  It wouldn't hurt.  However cannot say it will help.  For me I don't like the noise of an air pump so I don't have one.  I just let the water jets from the spray bar fall 1/2 inch to the water.  That drags in a lot of air and it sounds like the small water fountain which I like. 
 

 
 
I noticed that you can buy loose activated carbon that isn't in premade packets, when carbon is in this form can you mix it with substrate? I have no intention of getting it as I my tank uses premade carbon packets, but I am curious how you use this in a tank.

 
In my filter I removed the cartridge placed a foam on water intake screen.  Behind the foam I placed the carbon, then another layer of foam to between the carbon and the pump.  That would keep the carbon out of the pump.  I wouldn't try to put the carbon in the substrate.  It will float in the water for some time before it sinks.  it will get everywhere.  Also you need water to flow past the carbon for it to have any effect.  water flow in the substrate will typically be very little below the surface of the substrate.  you could put the carbon in a cloth pouch and clip that to the wall of the aquarium and that would probably work but I have never tried that. Larger filters don't have cartridges.  Instead they have one or more containers for media of the owners choice.  

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you here, Steven, sorry!
 
I would definitely move the fish to the larger tank,as soon as possible.

By the time you get the larger aquarium and have it all set up the 5 gallon may be partially cycled.  I would rather have fish in a partially cycled tank than in a larger none cycled tank.  Yes the ammonia levels will be lower in a larger tank but in all likelihood the fish will be exposed to it longer which may be just as bad.  There is no way to know which is better.

But if the OP moves all the filter media to the new tank's filter, then the larger tank will be cycled to exactly the same level anyway. The same amount of fish and bacteria, but in a larger volume or water will be better than in a smaller volume.

 

[Vindicare066]

Hey everyone,
 
I just wanted to give you all an update. This past weekend I acquired the 30 gallon tank, I was suppose to get a week earlier but I couldnt make it out to see my cousin. The tank is relatively dirty, but for the most part it looks like it is in decent shape, I don't see any cracks and the seems look fine, unfortunately, it didnt come with any equipment or decor so I am going to have to go out and get this. Any recommendations on what type of lights, tank hoods, heaters and filters, and other equipment I should be looking at to set this tank up properly? 
 
I never ended up finding a store that sells Dr. Tims or Tetra Safe Start Plus, I ended up getting a product called Colony by Acrylic Tank Manufacturing, supposedly they use this in professional aquariums. To test it out I bought a small 3.5 Gallon tank and did a fishless cycle in it. It seems to have worked and I think the tank was established in 2 weeks.
 
I kept a log of the readings when i did water changes. 
  
(June 24th readings were: ammonia 0.0ppm, Nitrites: 5.0ppm, Nitrates: 160ppm) After this test I was out of town for a few days.
 
June 27th (Today) readings 0.0ppm in all three categories. 
 
I am hoping this tank is cycled but I am kinda nervous that I am not getting any Nitrates registering considering it was so high 3 days earlier. 
: 

 

[StevenF]

 
June 27th (Today) readings 0.0ppm in all three categories. 
 
I am hoping this tank is cycled but I am kinda nervous that I am not getting any Nitrates registering considering it was so high 3 days earlier. 

If I recall you got a plant for the tank.  If there is a plant in the tank it may have absorbed all the nitrate to grow.  good news is the tank appears to be cycled.  since it is still a new tank the ammonia and nitrite may still appear from time to time but you should see less and less of that over time.  
 

 
 
Any recommendations on what type of lights, tank hoods, heaters and filters, and other equipment I should be looking at to set this tank up properly? 

Currently the most economical lighting is probably florescent.  One or two T5 lamps might be enough light for your tank.  Some people prefer to have hoods over the tank while others do not.  hoods will prevent fish from jumping out of the tank although for your fish that is probably unlikely to happen.  The other reason to have a hood is to reduce the evaporation rate of the water.  For good plant growth it is a good idea to know how bright the light is.  Most of the time brightness is in lumens per square inch.  The link below goes into more detail on that.  http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/300490-how-calculate-your-tank-lighting-lsi.html
 
For heaters it is best to get a heater with enough wattage to heat the tank but not enough to overheat it in the event it gets stuck on.  in the link below a calculator will take your tanks size and calculate the minimum heater wattage necessary to heat your tank.http/www.kernsanalysis.com/CalcMinWatt.cgi?LENGTH=8&SIDEUNIT=INCH&TOPTHICK=.125&WALLUNIT=INCH&WIDTH=8&WALLTHICK=.125&HEIGHT=8&BOTTOMTHICK=.125&WALLTYPE=ACRYLIC&SUPPORT=FELT&DELTAT=15&TEMPUNIT=F&.submit=Submit

 

[Vindicare066]

Hi Steven, I did pick up a plant for this small 3.5 Gallon Tank, I kinda had a suspicion that is what happened to the Nitrates but I wanted to confirm, will that be a problem in the future (not having nitrates in the tank despite being cycled?)
 
 On another note the 5 Gallon tank that I took on from my roommate which was the initial tank I posted about, and is still currently housing all the fish,  I think is nearly done cycling, last night I did a water test, my ammonia levels have dropped down to 0.25 and my Nitrites have spiked upwards to 2.0-5.0ppm and I have about 60ppm of Nitrates present in the tank, so its getting there. I did a water change as soon as I saw how high the Nitrites were and will be doing my daily water changes to keep it low. Based on how quickly it took the 3.5 Gallon Tank to cycle I am hoping within the next few days I see a drop in the Nitrite levels and the tank should be done cycling. 
 
Thanks for the links I will check them out this evening. Is there any other equipment I should be looking into for this 30 gallon tank? Every time I go into the LFS they always advertise and talk about things like a CO2 system  O2 pump, UV sterilizer and power heads as being important components to an aquarium. I take what the LFS says a grain of salt, although I am sure they are right 90% of the time, I don't want to be pressured into buying something that doesn't necessarily need to be in the tank. 
 
Thanks again!
 
Vindi

 

[StevenF]

 
 
Every time I go into the LFS they always advertise and talk about things like a CO2 system  O2 pump, UV sterilizer and power heads as being important components to an aquarium. I take what the LFS says a grain of salt

they are mainly just trying to sell you something.  UV sterilizer are really good at eliminating or at minimum reducing green water and bacterial blooms.  They are also helpful in reducing or eliminating parasites in the water. It you don't have any of these a UV sterilizer if of no benefit. 
 
CO2 systems are mainly used to accelerate plant growth.  Many people have no problem growing plants.  If you are satisfied with your plant growth you don't need it.  If you have a problem growing plants a CO2 system likely will not solve the issue. Numeral  Nutrient deficiencies is often a cause of slow or now growth. A fertilizer can solve that at lower cost. Insufficient light can also common cause . If you have fish in your aquarium you will always have at least some CO2.  
 
All aquarium fish need oxygen.  many use water pumps to disturb the surface or in my case I use a pump and let the water fall back into the tank.  That aerates the water  well enough for most people. If you don't want a pump you can use an air pump.  
 
None of the above are necessary.  They can be helpful for someone with problems.  But the advice on this forum is free and sometimes you get more than one possible solution recommended.

 

[Vindicare066]

Great thanks Steven! I appreciate the tips! I will keep all this information in mind when as I start setting up my 30 Gallon tank. If I have any additional questions I will be sure to post them!
 
Thanks again!
 
Vindi