Acquired 5 Gal Tank Need Help

[Vindicare066]

Hi there,
 
I am new to the forum and today, I took on a 5 gallon fish tank from my roommate, after seeing my roommate start to pay less and less attention to it and the tank start to look rough (I'm guessing he didn't realize how much work needed to go into caring for one), I offered to buy the tank and products off of him to spare the fish from suffering.
 
The tank and materials I got from him:
 
1 Fluval Spec 5 Gal Tank
1 piece of driftwood
2 plants (one is a java fern the other I have no idea)
1 fake log decoration
1 Nat Geo heater
 
Chemicals/food:
 
1 top fin water condition
1 API Ammo lock
1 Water clarifier
1 nutrafin plant gro
1 nutrafin cycle (biological supplement)
1 Marineland Easy Care
1 Marineland All in one Remedy 
1 API master PH test kit
1 tetra flakes 
1 pleco algae eaters
 
Fish I have are:
 
3 tetras (2 red ones, 1 Silver/Black) 
1 Pleco (dark skinned with white spots)
 
 
Background:.  
 
He had purchased this tank a month ago along the fish listed above, he did weekly water changes and fed them once a day but I don't know what else. I want to say the fish were added the same day but I don't know for certain.
 
I have been doing some background research on both this forum and others and everyone has been saying before adding fish the tank needs to be cycled and that cycling tends to take a 6-8 weeks without fish. Unfortunately, I do not have this luxury, I have checked the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels using the test kit. they registered 4.0ppm, 0.50ppm and 0.0ppm. Seeing as I had a lot of ammonia, I used the vacuum he gave me to do a 60% water change and remove some of the waste in the tank. The tank is now registering at I believe 0.50ppm although it could be 1.0ppm unfortunately i can't distinguish the colour difference due to a mild colour blindness. Nitrites and Nitrates are registering at 0.0ppm. 
 
so my main concern now is getting this tank stabilized if it is at all possible. So my question to everyone is how often do I need to perform water changes? I am assuming this tank is close to its capacity, I am going to have to be changing the water fairly frequently. Do I need to change the water daily or can I let a day or two pass? How much water should i be removing. Most forums I've been browsing say 20%, would this be okay or should i be increasing it to say 30 or 40% due to the number of fish? I have also read that I should reduce the amount of food these fish are eating, so rather than once every day can i cut it down to once every other day?
Finally, Can I use Ammo Lock to help reduce the toxicity of the ammonia while the tank is cycling? The bottle doesn't really give me a clear idea as to whether or not I can. 
 
I also have learned that all of these fish need a bigger tank... Unfortunately, I my current living accommodations don't have the space for a 40 Gal. tank. So I have to work with what I got until I move. I'm really sorry to bombard the community with all these questions and share a real nightmare of a story. I have the time and I am willing to put in the effort, I want to do my best to help these fish survive long enough to get them into a proper tank. I would love the advice. 
 
Cheers,
 
Vindi

 

[StevenF]

If you are reading ammonia cycle out as much water as you can .  Check ammonia levels daily.  Yes that means you maybe changing water daily.  The goal is to keep ammonia and nitrite as low as possible while the bacteria get going.  Be sure to use the water conditioner on the water you add.  The ammo lock  and the biological supplement may also be used but i don't know how effective they will be.  Once the tank stabilizes you can switch to once a week water cycle.  I normally do a 30 to 50% water change once a week.
 
The second thing you need to do it get the plants growing as well as possible.  keep the aquarium light on long and if possible put the tank near a window so that it gets some indirect light.  This extra light might cause a algae bloom but we can deal with that later.  The Algae will also help reduce ammonia and nitrite.   That will maximize the energy plants have to grow.  Growing plants will absorb ammonia and nitrite which would help.  Apply the plant fertilizer with every water change to help the plants.  I am not familiar with this fertilizer does the label list the ingredients?  I am concerned that it may be missing some key ingredients plants need.   Are you using tap water and is it hard or soft and if possible what is  the tap water GH and Kh value? 

 

[fluttermoth]

Steven's given you some great advice; keep on testing and water changing to keep both ammonia and nitrite as near to zero as possible.
 
I would just like to add that you're going to have issues with the 'plec'. There is no species of plec, even the smaller ones like bristlenoses or clown plecs, that can live in a 5 gallon tank.
 
They're very bulky, messy fish that, quite apart from the fact that it will grow too big for your tank, produce a lot of waste that your little tank and filter is going to struggle to cope with. You're going to have to get either a larger tank or rehome the fish, or it's not going to live very long

 

[Vindicare066]

If you are reading ammonia cycle out as much water as you can .  Check ammonia levels daily.  Yes that means you maybe changing water daily.  The goal is to keep ammonia and nitrite as low as possible while the bacteria get going.  Be sure to use the water conditioner on the water you add.  The ammo lock  and the biological supplement may also be used but i don't know how effective they will be.  Once the tank stabilizes you can switch to once a week water cycle.  I normally do a 30 to 50% water change once a week.
 
Okay I will be sure to do daily water changes, would 20% suffice?  
 
The second thing you need to do it get the plants growing as well as possible.  keep the aquarium light on long and if possible put the tank near a window so that it gets some indirect light.  This extra light might cause a algae bloom but we can deal with that later.  The Algae will also help reduce ammonia and nitrite.   That will maximize the energy plants have to grow.  Growing plants will absorb ammonia and nitrite which would help.  Apply the plant fertilizer with every water change to help the plants.  I am not familiar with this fertilizer does the label list the ingredients?  I am concerned that it may be missing some key ingredients plants need.   Are you using tap water and is it hard or soft and if possible what is  the tap water GH and Kh value? 
 
The tank itself has a 35 blub LED lamp that basically covers the entire tank, there is only one real dark spot, so I ended up rearranging the plants so none were in that spot. I have moved the tank into our lounge area, this room has a lot of windows and in the late afternoon from 4-7pm natural sunlight  can actually hit the tank. I figured if I leave the light on for about 8 hrs (7am to 4pm) my work schedule, it should suffice. The light LED lamp also has a "moonlight" feature, should I be turning this on at night? Does it do anything? 
 
In regards to the plants, they seem to be doing alright, I am seeing a lot of buds on the stems, as well as new root shoots. I did a quick search of the nutraplant gro ingredients and found this: 

• ngredients: derived from sodium ferric ethylenediamine tetraacetate, manganese sulphate, zinc sulphate, boric acid, copper sulphate, sodium molybdate and chelated with ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA)
• Contains nonplant food ingredient: 0.02% thiamine HCL (vitamin B1) 
• Guaranteed Analysis: Total Nitrogen (N) 0.15%, Water Soluble Nitrogen (Chelating agent) 0.15%, Boron (B) 0.0005%, Copper (Cu) 0.0005%, Chelated Copper (Cu) 0.0005%, Iron (Fe) 0.26%, Chelated Iron (Fe) 0.26%, Manganese (Mn) 0.05%, Chelated Manganese (Mn) 0.05%, Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0007%, Zinc (Zn) 0.003%, Chelated Zinc (Zn) 0.003%

Will that suffice for plant food? 
 
 In regards to the tap water, I think the water is more hard than soft, I also don't know if the house we have uses a water softener. I  looked up the cities water hardness and they are saying it is 124 miligrams per liter which is the equivalent of 7.1 grains per US gallon. Is there a test kit I can get that can measure these values?  
 
I am going to go to the local fish store to pick up supplies today, just let me know if there is a test kit for GH and Kh and if I need a new plant food supplement. 
 
Thank you for helping me with this tank! I really appreciate it!

 

[Ch4rlie]

I would suggest reading the following articles of fish in cycle, to get a good idea of what is involved and what you should be looking for, thta is if you cannot give these fish to a LFS or to a freind/family member with an established tank.
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il
 
 
The recommendation is obviously to do a Fish in Cycle if this is possible at all
 
I will add the link for this Fishless Cycle article anyway as it will show the difference between fishless and fish in cycle.
 
Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank
 
 
As Fluttermoth already mentions, that pleco is going to outgrow that 5 gal tank, and if not removed and put into a more suitable sized tank, growth stunting may occur.
 
And from the sounds of your tetra descriptions you have 2 different species, possibly Ember tetras and maybe Black Skirt tetra.
Most tetras species do require larger than 5 gal tanks due to being fairly active and needing to be in shoals of 6+ for each specie.
 
The LED light you have, sounds as if its low tech but uncertain at this moment in time, low tech plants would be best option imho at the moment, java fern is one such low tech plant.
 
The plant fertiliser sound pretty good and would stick with that if your plants are growing fairly well under these lights and fert routine.
 
Sorry if a lot of this post is pretty negative
Always best to know as soon as possible so you can make more informed choices and decide what would be best to do.

 

[Vindicare066]

"I would just like to add that you're going to have issues with the 'plec'. There is no species of plec, even the smaller ones like bristlenoses or clown plecs, that can live in a 5 gallon tank.
 
They're very bulky, messy fish that, quite apart from the fact that it will grow too big for your tank, produce a lot of waste that your little tank and filter is going to struggle to cope with. You're going to have to get either a larger tank or rehome the fish, or it's not going to live very long 

"
 
So I did some more research on the pleco, I believe its called a Galaxy pleco. The guy is maybe 3-3.5 inches long from head to tail at the moment, he seems alright at the current time, but I definitely don't want to keep him in this aquarium for very long. I am getting ready to move, so buying the 40 Gal tank I have been eyeing isn't in the cards at the moment. Do you by chance know how fast these guys grow?  Can he be kept in this tank for another month or two while I save up and buy the 40 Gal and then cycle it?
 
As of right now I am not seeing any signs of what look like distress, he likes to hang out in the log decoration for most of the day, but I am seeing him come out and hang out on the driftwood or on the walls of the tank in the evenings. My roommate was only feeding him once a week, with the algae waffers so I figured I would do the same, that should keep his waste level lower.  When I do the daily water changes that steven suggest, should I be using the gravel vacuum to try and sift out some of the waste he is producing to reduce the strain on my filter?
 
Thank you for the help and information!

 

[Vindicare066]

I would suggest reading the following articles of fish in cycle, to get a good idea of what is involved and what you should be looking for, thta is if you cannot give these fish to a LFS or to a freind/family member with an established tank.
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I
 
Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il
 
 
The recommendation is obviously to do a Fish in Cycle if this is possible at all

 
I will add the link for this Fishless Cycle article anyway as it will show the difference between fishless and fish in cycle.
 
Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank
 
 
As Fluttermoth already mentions, that pleco is going to outgrow that 5 gal tank, and if not removed and put into a more suitable sized tank, growth stunting may occur.
 
And from the sounds of your tetra descriptions you have 2 different species, possibly Ember tetras and maybe Black Skirt tetra.
Most tetras species do require larger than 5 gal tanks due to being fairly active and needing to be in shoals of 6+ for each specie.
 
The LED light you have, sounds as if its low tech but uncertain at this moment in time, low tech plants would be best option imho at the moment, java fern is one such low tech plant.
 
The plant fertiliser sound pretty good and would stick with that if your plants are growing fairly well under these lights and fert routine.
 
Sorry if a lot of this post is pretty negative

Always best to know as soon as possible so you can make more informed choices and decide what would be best to do.

 
 
 
Unfortunately, i am out of luck when it comes to having family members or friends who have a established larger tank. So I can't transplant the fish. Your post reminded me though, I do have a cousin who has a larger tank that is currently sitting unused at their house I think it might be a 30 Gal tank, it housed 5 goldfish and a massive Pleco during the winter months that they normally stocked in their pond. UPDATE: I spoke with my cousin and they have two unused tanks and I can take one! They told me they will get back to me this evening on the sizes of the tanks and what pieces need to be replaced. Hopefully, these tanks are large enough to support the pleco.
 
 
I also inquired about the tetras with my roommate, just to get some additional information on them. He said one was a phantom tetra but wasn't very specific, and couldn't he remember the other two. So I typed "ember tetras" in google and they definitely don't look like the images. These red tetras have a black spot a few milimeters behind their head, and their dorsal fin is a predominantly black with some silver on the edges. 
 
No worries about the negativity! This is good feedback and is arming me with a lot of knowledge, I will read through the links you provide momentarily! I highly doubt my roommate did this kind of research before he bought the tank so hopefully I can rescue this tank and save these fish.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The two red tetras with black spots and  fins sounds like Sepae Tetras actually.
 
Anyways, that 30 gal would be better for the pleco but still not really big enough for fully grown pleco, though this does depends on what specie of pleco you have but most plecos, especially common plecos need at LEAST 40 - 50 gals but imo 75 gal plus tank is better, its the footprint of the tank rather than water volume that counts, these common plecos grow to at least 20" inch.
 
Will your LFS not take these tetras from you?
Do remember you will need at least 6 of each specie and a 5 gal tank simply is unsuitable, unfortunately.
The tetras may survive but they certainly will not thrive in a 5 gal

 
But a 30 gal is good though for most tetras

 

[Vindicare066]

The two red tetras with black spots and  fins sounds like Sepae Tetras actually.
 
Anyways, that 30 gal would be better for the pleco but still not really big enough for fully grown pleco, though this does depends on what specie of pleco you have but most plecos, especially common plecos need at LEAST 40 - 50 gals but imo 75 gal plus tank is better, its the footprint of the tank rather than water volume that counts, these common plecos grow to at least 20" inch.
 
Will your LFS not take these tetras from you?
Do remember you will need at least 6 of each specie and a 5 gal tank simply is unsuitable, unfortunately.
The tetras may survive but they certainly will not thrive in a 5 gal

 
But a 30 gal is good though for most tetras

 
 
I will go to my LFS tonight and inquire about whether or not they can take my tetras, I know these are schooling fish, and so they need their numbers. I know he originally had 5 of them in this tank with the pleco, two died from what I am guessing was shock. I am hoping the tank my cousins has can be the game changer in this, I will know tonight the dimensions of the tank. I am hoping they are 30 gallon tanks, it would certainly reduce the stress on the fish and make cycling easier and help them survive longer until I can put the money aside to buy a 50 to 60 gallon tank. 
 
I will keep you posted!

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ah, makes sense. Sounds a good plan to start with
 
Yup, do keep us posted and good luck

 

[StevenF]

 
 
The tank is now registering at I believe 0.50ppm although it could be 1.0ppm unfortunately i can't distinguish the colour difference due to a mild colour blindness

If you have color blindness I would look at something that gives you an electric readout. 
 
JBL has developed software for a smart phone that will analyze a photo of there test strips and provide you with numbers.  So that would help you interpret the results. For now this is probably your best option.  https/www.amazon.com/JBL-Smartphone-Evaluation-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B00R5S9EQ6/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465846360&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=jbl+pro+scan+test+strips
 
A more expensive and more accurate option is a Hanna instruments Colorimeter.  This is a liquid test kit that uses a meter to instead of a color chart .  You need one meter per water parameter you want to test for.  Unfortunately one meter runs about $50.  But if you decide to keep  an aquarium for a long time you could slowly collect them and eventaully have a very good test kit.
 http/hannainst.com/products/checker-colorimeters.html

 

[Vindicare066]

Ah, makes sense. Sounds a good plan to start with

 
Yup, do keep us posted and good luck

Alright, so I just got word that one of the tanks my cousins has measures L 29.75'' X W 12.25'' X D 16.50'' So I am looking at around 28-29 Gallon tank. The other I am still waiting to hear on though.. on another positive note they have offered to give me both tanks as they don't foresee themselves using them again. So regardless of which tank I choose first, both will be a substantial improvement over this little 5 gallon tank the fish currently inhabit. I am hoping to pick the tank(s) up some time this week or at the latest next week. With this news comes a whole new set of questions, the main one being should I do a fishless cycle with the larger tank and keep the tetras and pleco in the 5 gallon until the larger one is ready or should I move the fish into the larger tank and do a fish cycle? 
 
I have started doing what Steven suggested which is doing daily water changes of 20%, with a 50% water change done at the end of the week. I am also keeping a close eye on the ammonia levels, and recording the readings on my laptop to monitor the fluctuations, I will also added ammo lock to help reduce the toxicity every other day. If I can keep to this schedule I believe I can keep the fish healthy and safe in the 5 Gallon tank for the 5-6 week duration the nitrogen cycle requires. But I turn to the community for the final say as i am still new to this. 
 

 

 
 
The tank is now registering at I believe 0.50ppm although it could be 1.0ppm unfortunately i can't distinguish the colour difference due to a mild colour blindness

If you have color blindness I would look at something that gives you an electric readout. 
 
JBL has developed software for a smart phone that will analyze a photo of there test strips and provide you with numbers.  So that would help you interpret the results. For now this is probably your best option.  https/www.amazon.com/JBL-Smartphone-Evaluation-Freshwater-Aquarium/dp/B00R5S9EQ6/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465846360&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=jbl+pro+scan+test+strips
 
A more expensive and more accurate option is a Hanna instruments Colorimeter.  This is a liquid test kit that uses a meter to instead of a color chart .  You need one meter per water parameter you want to test for.  Unfortunately one meter runs about $50.  But if you decide to keep  an aquarium for a long time you could slowly collect them and eventaully have a very good test kit.
 http/hannainst.com/products/checker-colorimeters.html
 

 
I will certainly look into both of these items, forking out the 100 bucks for two meters would make my life easier, even if my colour blindness is mild, in the meantime I will take advantage of my LPS offer of doing free water tests, I am pretty sure they use the test strips but regardless having that second set of eyes who hopefully isn't colour blind like me could give me so additional feedback. 

 

[StevenF]

 
 
With this news comes a whole new set of questions, the main one being should I do a fishless cycle with the larger tank and keep the tetras and pleco in the 5 gallon until the larger one is ready or should I move the fish into the larger tank and do a fish cycle? 

I would do a fishless cycle in the larger tank then move the fish.   Also just before starting the fishless cycle I would put some of the plant fertilizer in larger tank.  sometimes  the fishless cycle can take some time to get started.  I don't know why but I suspect the nutrients in plant fertilizer would help  the bacteria get established faster. Also note it is better to put plants in the tank after it is cycled.  
 

 
 
I am pretty sure they use the test strips but regardless having that second set of eyes who hopefully isn't colour blind like me could give me so additional feedback. 

That is a good plan.  One little note is that it takes about 5 minutes to mix the reagent and get one  reading from the meter.  While the strips will do 6 tests in about 1 minute.  You might find it convenient to use the strips for a quick check and then if needed follow that up with the meter.  Although I don't have any eye issues I am heading in that direction.  Test strip for a quick check whenever I want and it I have additional concerns follow up with a meter.  I currently have a phosphate and iodine meter and just acquired a ph meter and TDS meter (pH and TDS are meters that don't need reagents)
.  

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you here, Steven, sorry!
 
I would definitely move the fish to the larger tank,as soon as possible.
 
The larger volume of water will help dilute the fish's wastes, and it will take longer for the ammonia and nitrite to reach dangerous levels which, in a small tank, can happen very quickly, especially with a bulky, messy fish like a plec involved.
 
If you put all the media from your current filter into the filter of the larger tank, then any bacteria you have already will help the new tank along.
 
One thing; I can't see that anyone's mentioned this to you yet, but you must make sure the filter media (that's all the 'stuff' inside your filter; sponge, or ceramic rings or whatever) is not changed or washed in tap water, only in old tank water, to preserve the bacterial colonies.

 

[Vindicare066]

Uh oh I have a divided party here! Sorry to throw another wrench into the mix but I just got word that I am welcome to both tanks, the second tank is a confirmed 30 gallon tank. So here is another question what if I were to split the fish population between the two 30 gallon tanks? The pleco in one, and the 3 tetras in the other, further reducing the bioloads and then at the same time set the 5 gallon tank to hold the plants until the 30 gallon tanks are ready and run a fishless cycle in the 5 gallon? 
 
 

 

Regarding the plant fertilizer do you want me to be adding it daily or every other day to the tanks when I get them? I currently have it penned for every other day on my calendar. I also have the nutrafin cycle biological supplement. How often do I need to add this to a cycling tank be it fishless or with fish in it? 
 
I am really fortunate to have a LFS right next to my work so I can bring in water samples without to much trouble. I was thinking of heading to the LFS later in the week, to do a small supply run, so I will get them to do a testing then. I will probably look at getting the meters later in the summer, I suspect I am going to need to throw a decent amount at the two tanks I am about to acquire this week so I will be strapped for cash for a few weeks, so I will make due with the API test kit for the time being. 
 

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with you here, Steven, sorry!
 
I would definitely move the fish to the larger tank,as soon as possible.
 
The larger volume of water will help dilute the fish's wastes, and it will take longer for the ammonia and nitrite to reach dangerous levels which, in a small tank, can happen very quickly, especially with a bulky, messy fish like a plec involved.
 
If you put all the media from your current filter into the filter of the larger tank, then any bacteria you have already will help the new tank along.
 
One thing; I can't see that anyone's mentioned this to you yet, but you must make sure the filter media (that's all the 'stuff' inside your filter; sponge, or ceramic rings or whatever) is not changed or washed in tap water, only in old tank water, to preserve the bacterial colonies.

 
 I will make a note not to rinse the media under the tap water.. not going to lie, I was thinking of doing some maintenance on the filter this week at some point and totally didn't think of the risks of tap water to the filter and its components. I don't know if my roommate ever did any maintenance on the filter or its medias, I suspect they were for the most part left alone. I only know of one instance where I saw the filter and its media removed from the water and that was when he had an issue with the carbon filter? (small pouch containing black stones) a few weeks ago when it turned the tank nearly all black. Out of curiosity can anyone tell me why that happened? Also when it comes to maintenance on the filter motor, the sponge and the other filters (Carbon and bio filters?), how do you safely clean them? Is there a link or video you would recommend? Also if you remove the filter or the sponge/ other filter packs from the tanks water and have it sit on say a counter in the open air will that kill the bacteria colonies? I would rather not make a simple mistake that adds 3 weeks onto my cycle over a silly mistake. 
 
Again thank you very much for all of the assistance! I really appreciate the time and advice you are sharing with me!