Aaargh! Major Problem With New Tank!

[greengoddess]

I just unpacked and set up my new Juwel 240 litre tank this afternoon. After getting the cabinet all built and the tank in position I noticed that the bottom front right corner of the tank was damaged. The glass is definitely OK but the plastic base is cracked. Now... I can live with the way it looks. It doesn't really bother me. But... my VERY IMPORTANT question is - does this bottom plastic base have any structural benefit to the tank? Does it hold the glass together at all? I don;t want my tank to burst once it's filled with water.

Also, there is no way I want to have to send this tank back to the retailer. It was delivered on a pallet by mail order and I've disposed of the pallet and all the packaging. The logistics of getting it returned will be a nightmare so if at all possible I would like to avoid that. I just want to be sure that my tank isn't going to fall apart. Like I said, I have examined the glass and it is perfect.

Any advice?

I have these photos of the damage if that helps:

 

[mattlee]

i would send it back just to be safe, you wouldnt want any horrible suprises one morning..... it should be down to the supplier/courier to sort out the returning of the tank

 

[greengoddess]

i would send it back just to be safe, you wouldnt want any horrible suprises one morning..... it should be down to the supplier/courier to sort out the returning of the tank

I've just been on the phone to Seapets where I bought it and the dude there said the plastic surround DOES perform a structural function. So it looks like it will have to go back. WHAT A NIGHTMARE! I knew buying a tank by mail order was a bad idea. This is just typical of my luck. Everything I touch becomes a disaster.

 

[mattlee]

i would send it back just to be safe, you wouldnt want any horrible suprises one morning..... it should be down to the supplier/courier to sort out the returning of the tank

I've just been on the phone to Seapets where I bought it and the dude there said the plastic surround DOES perform a structural function. So it looks like it will have to go back. WHAT A NIGHTMARE! I knew buying a tank by mail order was a bad idea. This is just typical of my luck. Everything I touch becomes a disaster.

good things come to those that wait......

i wouldnt want a new tank thats damaged

 

[waterdrop]

Some of the things I've learned here on TFF about tank floors would seem to support what the company representative has said. What those plastic frames do when they are put around and under the edges of an all-glass tank is to form a "floating base." The floating base helps to take away the wild card of there being a "point pressure" (picture a single piece of gravel somewhere under a bottom sheet of glass that wasn't raised by a floating base - the glass would crack out from that point.) I have experienced a tank bottom cracking due to a point along the frame having been raised slightly at just a point, not along a whole side. The crack visibly started at the raised point and curved across the entire tank bottom (got to observe this after cleaning up the gallons of water from the floor!)

If your plastic tank frame is damaged in any way, theres an increased chance it could create one of these point imbalances and crack the tank when it has water in it and gets heavy. We all feel your pain - its the same way these days with those big flatscreen TVs that have to be delivered by an eighteen wheeler into your neighborhood, you don't want the job of sending them back!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Good point about the base also helping to avoid point pressure. I suppose that's obvious when you think about it.

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Good point about the base also helping to avoid point pressure. I suppose that's obvious when you think about it.

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Good point about the base also helping to avoid point pressure. I suppose that's obvious when you think about it.

Thanks Waterdrop,

Although the glass tank is siliconed together, I am assuming that the plastic base also holds all four sides tightly together at the bottom. When you fill a 240 litre tank you have a quarter of a ton of water held in place by a few beads of silicone. I think the plastic surround must have a structural purpose (acting like a piece of heavy duty strapping around a pallet of heavy boxes). I suppose it will be worth the hassle in the end. I would hate the tank to rupture with my fish inside it.

Good point about the base also helping to avoid point pressure. I suppose that's obvious when you think about it.

For goodness sake... looks like I need to learn how to use this forum a bit better. Sorry about that last post.

 

[waterdrop]

No, I actually do think its a bit weirder than that. The siliconed glass is plenty strong to hold everything intact I believe. There are lots and lots of completely glass tanks with no trim whatsoever out there. But the way a tank rests is very important. The pure glass ones have to be set on a sheet of styrofoam-like material that will deform and soak up any small bump or other non-flat blemish. This will remove point failures. A "floating base," no matter what the material, plastic, wood, whatever, will take away that problem. The problem of leveling the tank in both directions remains, regardless of bottom method.

I'm not a mechanical engineer so I don't have the vobabulary but I believe glass strength is similar to what gets discussed about concrete being different with and without rebar (metal rods) in it... something like compression failure vs. shear failure.. the concrete itself having very strong compression strength but needing the metal rods to help give it better shear strength. Likewise, glass has lots of compression strength for weight applied very evenly to it but has very little shear strength if I'm remembering right. So whereas you may be able to lots of even, straight-down force on glass, the minute you ask it to bend (picture trying to make a diving board out of it, lol) it will just break on you.

If there are any structural engineers in the crowd, please clean this up for me. I could also be wrong about the bottom banding but I don't think its job is to add any significant strenth to holding the glass together, but just to be strong enough to hold itself (the frame) together and to be able to take the great weight of the tank just like any piece of furniture beneath the tank must do.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[greengoddess]

You may well be right Waterdrop. If you are correct then I needn't return the tank. But it's a huge risk to take so I will probably look into getting a replacement. This is such a pain as I was looking forward to getting it set up. The longer I have to wait the longer my two fancy goldfish are sitting in a 25 litre tank

 

[K-Holed]

If it's eligable to be taken back, it may well not be your responibility. Did you have to sign for the tank? If you did, there may be an expectation that the goods were checked and declared satisfactory at the point of arival. If this is the case you may have to fight your corner. We all know how impractical it is to say to a delivers person "I'm sorry, I just need to unpack this large parcel and go over it with a fine tooth comb. Would be a sweety and just wait whilst I do that, before I sign for it".

 

[danb]

I presume your in the UK? If the company is saying its not their responsibility just tell them you are contacting trading stardards in their area which they MUST comply with. Phone your local council ask to be put through to trading standards, its really easy, they are generally very helpful and just ask them what your rights are.

You shouldnt have to arrange packaging it backup or returning it. Thats down to the company; they build into their costs for mess ups like these.

Thats if the company says its not their problem ofcourse, im sure they'll just come and collect it. Would definately send it back if i were you. I have one of these tank and no way would i like to see the contents spilled over my living room floor.

 

[mattlee]

I've just been on the phone to Seapets where I bought it and the dude there said the plastic surround DOES perform a structural function. So it looks like it will have to go back. WHAT A NIGHTMARE! I knew buying a tank by mail order was a bad idea. This is just typical of my luck. Everything I touch becomes a disaster.


i think the op has contacted the suppliers, seapets, already about returning the tank and they agree that its structural damage as stated in a previous reply....

 

[danb]

ah there was me getting one step ahead; i had this problem before and the supplier said it wasn't their problem and i had to go down the trading standards route!! ooppps

 

[K-Holed]

i think the op has contacted the suppliers, seapets, already about returning the tank and they agree that its structural damage as stated in a previous reply....

There is a big difference between acknowledging that that the damage will cause a problem and accepting responsibility for that damage. They could turn round and say it must have been damaged after it had been delivered, as it had been signed for, showing that it was ok when it arrived.

In practice this would rarely happen and most companies will replace the items and sort out the collection of the old items as needed. For any company, the financial loss to them is often far outweighted by the possible loss of reputation.

[edit] (ps: Companies are not allowed to try and push the blame onto you in this way, but it doesn't stop some of them trying. Just to clarify)

 

[greengoddess]

Hi,

Yes I was worried that I may not be able to return it because it was signed for. However, Seapets have been amazing! I spoke to them again this morning and explained the situation. They could have just said that it was cosmetic damage but they were insistent that the tank would need to be exchanged for a new tank because the plastic base definitely has a structural purpose. I explained that I had already constructed the cabinet and that I had disposed of all the packaging. They are sending a new pallet and packaging with the delivery driver who will pack the old tank when he delivers the replacement. Now that's what I call service! On top of that, they were the cheapest in the UK and also gave me 35kg of free gravel, a free tank background, a free fish net, free water dechlorinator and a free automatic feeder!!! I highly recommend dealing with this company if you are in the UK.

 

[K-Holed]

Hi,

Yes I was worried that I may not be able to return it because it was signed for. However, Seapets have been amazing! I spoke to them again this morning and explained the situation. They could have just said that it was cosmetic damage but they were insistent that the tank would need to be exchanged for a new tank because the plastic base definitely has a structural purpose. I explained that I had already constructed the cabinet and that I had disposed of all the packaging. They are sending a new pallet and packaging with the delivery driver who will pack the old tank when he delivers the replacement. Now that's what I call service! On top of that, they were the cheapest in the UK and also gave me 35kg of free gravel, a free tank background, a free fish net, free water dechlorinator and a free automatic feeder!!! I highly recommend dealing with this company if you are in the UK.

Obviously a company that likes to trade on repuation and not numbers alone.