A Word Of Warning..(updated)

[wuvmybetta]

Oh Bignose, I saw you coming a mile away, surprise! *jazz hands*

Why not give it a try yourself? No one is going to go through the trouble of proving anything for/to you...when your reply is pretty much predictable
As for your defense of the medical field...surely you know that doctors work hand in hand with the government and the pharmaceutical companies, and although they usually have your best interest at heart, their hands are tied in certain situations. Silver is a perfect example- it is a mineral and henceforth cannot be patented, which in turn equals no money to be made for either. Why should they bother. This is just factual and should not bother you.

I will tell you this- my dearly departed mother found out she had a full blown case of Hepatitis C and the doctors gave her six months to live, they wanted her to do the chemotherapy which only gave a very small percentage of chance of recovery. To her- it hardly seemed worth it. Instead we searched for alternatives, this is when I learned about silver. She began taking it faithfully, and heavily and in a years time she went back to the doctor and was diagnosed hepatitis free with a fully functioning liver. He commented that he did not know what she was doing- but to keep it up! (which sadly she didn't and she passed away five years later from unrelated pneumonia). Point is- that was pretty amazing.

I understand that personal stories cannot compete with scientific fact. But I cannot prove anything for you, I can only tell you of my personal accounts. Just pick up a bottle, and maybe a sick fish, and give it a try! If it does nothing, then by all means I welcome you to jump into these threads and poo-poo everyones experiences.

eta~ sorry we have steered so far off topic.

 

[Majjie]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to try whatever remedies they want - but I think this probably says it all:

http/nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm

The US FDA actually fines people for making unsubstantiated claims about colloidal silver and banned it's use in over the counter products making these claims in 1999.

I don't see where commerce comes into it. Colloidal silver products don't come free - or even cheap.

 

[Bignose]

wuv, I have no problem with people using it, it is completely 100% their choice. I know that there is a lot of anecdote, and the issue merits further study. But, at the moment, there is no proof. That is my simple point of view.

This proof holds for fishkeeping, and for taking care of people. I am very happy that some people had good success with it -- no matter what really caused the improvement in health. But, I am sorry, the scientific studies that have been performed on it, just do not bear out the same results. I might as well sell you a sugar pill and tell you how great it works -- because the placebo effect is very well documented. This is obviously wrong and immoral and is why these tests are performed -- so that the medicines that are approved actually do what the manufacturer claims they do.

and Re:

surely you know that doctors work hand in hand with the government and the pharmaceutical companies, and although they usually have your best interest at heart, their hands are tied in certain situations.

Yes, these are issues that should be discussed in public and open forums. I agree, and if you note I did say above that there certainly are issues that need to be discussed. But it does not allow one to make disgusting comments about letting people die. Talking and discussing an issue does not involve name-calling, and should be centered on the facts.

boboby,

You said:

but if silver takes off, the drug company's will loose big time. their control of western medicine means that they will fight, however many people die, to defend their profit.

in which you accused the medical field of letting people die rather than use colloidal silver. This is what incensed me, that you said that they are letting people die, when I know that the overwhelming majority of them are just trying to help people. I cannot speak for all, there are bound to be a few heartless people out there, but all-in-all, they are just trying to do their best as safely as possible.

This is as bad or worse than the typical talk-show on CNN or Fox News... you just try to say something as shocking and as loud a statement as possible to get your point accross, rather than trying to discuss the issues. You characterize the entire western medical industry as murders, but in no way whatsoever is this even remotely true. You may belive this in your heart, but do not say something like that in a public forum and expect it to go unchallenged. I have been trying to stick to the established facts, as I know them (still willing to look at anything you may have!), while you started this is with a gross mischaracterization of an entire group of people.

I have fully acknowledged -- several times now -- that the system is imperfect, and that there are issues that should be discussed out in the open. But, it does not allow you to make disgusting comments about people letting other people die and not expect to be challenged about it.

Also, I think you need to take your own advice, and read my posts. Have you read Fung and Bowen, Journal of Toxicology, Clinical Toxocology, 1996? I have. I summarized the result four you above, but here it is in the author's own words: "CONCLUSIONS: We emphasize the lack of established effectiveness and potential toxicity of these products."

I can cite several more, too:

"Bacterial silver resistance: molecular biology and uses and misuses of silver compounds" by Simon Silver, FEMS Microbiology Reviews, 2003

"Exposure-Related Health Effects of Silver and Silver Compounds: A Review" Pamela Drake and Kyle Hazelwood. Annals of Occupational Hygiene 2005

Those are scientific papers, but here is a good layman's term resource: http/www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...s/silverad.html

Look how they cite peer-reviewed scientific studies in that last link, several from just the last few years. Can you do the same in support of silver?

 

[raptorrex]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to try whatever remedies they want - but I think this probably says it all:

http/nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm



I don't see where commerce comes into it. Colloidal silver products don't come free - or even cheap.

thing is the people making the money from drugs, will be eliminated, at a stroke, and the mining company's will take over. i'm sure there is something called "Vested Interests". and i have made no unsubstantiated claims, the garments i speak of, are 100% anti bacterial, this is confirmed by NHS and the American medical authorities. the story of how i use silver is anecdotal, and as such is not a claim but a personal view!

But from MY experience the use of colloidal silver, can and has give people major release.
It isnt expensive to do, a short length of copper wire, and equal length of broken silver chain, a pint glass of water, a 9v battery and 20 minutes is all you need. lol with these it dont take much to work out how to do it.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

How deep was the cut? I stick my hand in with small scratches, nothing that bleeds but if it bleeds I don't use that hand.

 

[Bignose]

The gowns are not perfect magic cure-alls! Please look at

"Bacterial silver resistance: molecular biology and uses and misuses of silver compounds" by Simon Silver, FEMS Microbiology Reviews, 2003

It discusses how bacteria and viruses are starting to develop resistance to the silver -- at least partly due to the overuse and inappropriate use of silver in objects that do not need to be antimicrobial or casual use of silver.

So the garments you speak of are not 100% anti-bacterial, the silver-resistance bacteria identified in the above article will grow on that gown. There is no magic cure-all perfect bullet. Nature just doesn't work that way.

Here is another article that discusses silver-resistant bacteria found on teeth: "Isolation of silver- and antibiotic-resistant Enterobacter cloacae from teeth" by Davis et al., Oral Microbiology and Immunology 2005. Again, more proof that nothing can be 100% effective, it is just impossible.

Just one more very recently published in July 2006 "Silver as biocides in burn and wound dressings and bacterial resistance to silver compounds" by Simon Silver et al. Journal of Industrial Microbiology and Biotechnology. Here is the abstract from that article: "Silver products have been used for thousands of years for their beneficial effects, often for hygiene and in more recent years as antimicrobials on wounds from burns, trauma, and diabetic ulcers. Silver sulfadiazine creams (Silvazine and Flamazine) are topical ointments that are marketed globally. In recent years, a range of wound dressings with slow-release Ag compounds have been introduced, including Acticoat, Actisorb Silver, Silverlon, and others. While these are generally accepted as useful for control of bacterial infections (and also against fungi and viruses), key issues remain, including importantly the relative efficacy of different silver products for wound and burn uses and the existence of microbes that are resistant to Ag+. These are beneficial products needing further study, although each has drawbacks. The genes (and proteins) involved in bacterial resistance to Ag have been defined and studied in recent years. (emphasis mine)"

Look, the 'established' medical community completely acknowledges its use for wounds, burns, and ulcers. There is proof for these things, but they also tell us that key issues remain. LIke resistances, and relative efficacy. Relative efficacy meaning that if there is a better, maybe even cheaper, product that helps heal up wounds and burns faster, then that better product should be used, obviously. But, all of these other miracle claims are unsubstantiated, there is no proof that they work any better than a placebo for some of the claims, like colds & flu, TB, bronchitis, etc.

 

[black angel]

Ok - enough is enough.

Its going back and forth and way off topic.

If Wuv wants to open it again then she can do, but im closing it for now.