A little under 1ppm ammonia after a 100% water change

Slaphppy7

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"Prime is not the best conditioner, and I will not use it because it messes with things best left alone, and Seachem cannot (or will not) disclose how if asked."

Please elaborate on the highlighted area....many companies do not disclose proprietary information.
 
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Colin_T

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Have you found out what the pH and GH of the supplier's water is so you can match your tank to theirs, so there is less stress to the fish?
 

Byron

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"Prime is not the best conditioner, and I will not use it because it messes with things best left alone, and Seachem cannot (or will not) disclose how if asked."

Please elaborate on the highlighted area.

Prime "detoxifies" ammonia, nitrite and nitrate; it is temporary, and the substances are still there either toxic or not, since it does not remove them. In any healthy aquarium, these three forms of nitrogen will be handled either by aquatic plants, or by nitrifying bacteria and (more probably) archaea. There is no need to be adding substances that "mess" with these. Solve the problem, do not mask it with chemicals, especially when the manufacturer is hesitant to tell us how.

Seachem will not say how Prime "detoxifies" nitrate. I corresponded with them several years ago, and the individual actually told me they did not know, that it was something they discovered in tests. More recently they seem to be skirting this issue, under "trade secrets" or whatever.

Another issue. Prime contains a chemical that binds heavy metals such that they cannot be taken up by plants. @Essjay has looked into this (she has chemistry knowledge I do not have) and can tell us the name. API's Tap Water Conditioner does not do this, so far as we know. This is why Seachem advise to not use plant fertilizers (Flourish or whatever, that contain the heavy metals iron, copper, zinc, manganese) after a water change, because Prime prevents the plants from assimilating these, so it is a waste. API's Tap Water Conditioner does not have this problem.

I also do not like chemicals like the one in Prime getting into my fish, especially when it is not necessary to begin with. There is certainly no benefit to this.

One of our members, might be @AbbeysDad has a line (or did) in his signature about clean water not chemical soups being best for fish. My research over the past few years into fish physiology and the impact of various additives leaves no doubt in my mind that my fish are healthier because I do not use anything that it not absolutely essential for the good of the fish.
 

GaryE

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"Why must you know" for where could be the answer. Over the years I have seen a number of postings from the mid-western USA where people are getting well and tap water tainted by agricultural run off. It's a pattern I've noticed - I hope not for you.
 

coriesinhawaii

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I agree that water that is free of ammonia and nitrite is healthier for fish than water where the ammonia and nitrite was rendered nontoxic by adding in additional chemicals. It’s my personal opinion though that it is better to add in the additional chemical than to put the fish into the tank with ammonia and/or nitrite in there. Ammonia and nitrite are without a doubt very toxic to fish while Prime has not been demonstrated to be so.

If a tank is not fully cycled and there are fish in it it comes very much in handy to be able to reduce the harmful effects of these toxins on the fish by a quick addition of a detoxifier. Many people don’t have the option of doing a daily 100% water change whenever they get positive readings and doing so would stress the fish anyway in and of itself because it would require removing the fish from the tank and adding it back in. Plus the fish would still be exposed to the toxins between water changes.

My point is that ultimately it comes down to the particular fishkeeper’s own comparison of the risk vs benefit of the two scenarios and it might be a different answer depending on the particular circumstances and fish you are dealing with.

P.S. I guess the method of detoxification not being disclosed doesn’t bother me much because I’m a pharmacist and there’s plenty of drugs for which the mechanism of action is not understood. We certainly don’t discard the drugs as a viable treatment option just because we don’t know how it’s working.
 

Byron

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I agree that water that is free of ammonia and nitrite is healthier for fish than water where the ammonia and nitrite was rendered nontoxic by adding in additional chemicals. It’s my personal opinion though that it is better to add in the additional chemical than to put the fish into the tank with ammonia and/or nitrite in there. Ammonia and nitrite are without a doubt very toxic to fish while Prime has not been demonstrated to be so.

If a tank is not fully cycled and there are fish in it it comes very much in handy to be able to reduce the harmful effects of these toxins on the fish by a quick addition of a detoxifier. Many people don’t have the option of doing a daily 100% water change whenever they get positive readings and doing so would stress the fish anyway in and of itself because it would require removing the fish from the tank and adding it back in. Plus the fish would still be exposed to the toxins between water changes.

My point is that ultimately it comes down to the particular fishkeeper’s own comparison of the risk vs benefit of the two scenarios and it might be a different answer depending on the particular circumstances and fish you are dealing with.

P.S. I guess the method of detoxification not being disclosed doesn’t bother me much because I’m a pharmacist and there’s plenty of drugs for which the mechanism of action is not understood. We certainly don’t discard the drugs as a viable treatment option just because we don’t know how it’s working.

I concur with using Prime or the Aqua Essential if ammonia or nitrite are present, depending upon circumstances, though having said that these are not medications and are intended to deal with these substances in the source water when the aquarium has plants or bacteria to deal with the increase over 24-48 hours. My previous explanation to @Slaphppy7 question was general to explain why I do not use these chemical substances. Fortunately in over 30 years I have never had ammonia or nitrite issues.
 
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Rocky998

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Good news... So at first I was a bit worried about one of the gudgeons... He/she (I think she) was just laying at the corner of the tank for quite a while and I was getting concerned... About 30 minjtes later he/she was swimming with the rest and swimming on his/her own... I am enjoying watching them and about 5 hours after getting them I did throw some food in cause it seemed as if they were hungry (they didnt eat it). Thank you all for your help!
 

itiwhetu

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Prime "detoxifies" ammonia, nitrite and nitrate; it is temporary, and the substances are still there either toxic or not, since it does not remove them. In any healthy aquarium, these three forms of nitrogen will be handled either by aquatic plants, or by nitrifying bacteria and (more probably) archaea. There is no need to be adding substances that "mess" with these. Solve the problem, do not mask it with chemicals, especially when the manufacturer is hesitant to tell us how.

Seachem will not say how Prime "detoxifies" nitrate. I corresponded with them several years ago, and the individual actually told me they did not know, that it was something they discovered in tests. More recently they seem to be skirting this issue, under "trade secrets" or whatever.

Another issue. Prime contains a chemical that binds heavy metals such that they cannot be taken up by plants. @Essjay has looked into this (she has chemistry knowledge I do not have) and can tell us the name. API's Tap Water Conditioner does not do this, so far as we know. This is why Seachem advise to not use plant fertilizers (Flourish or whatever, that contain the heavy metals iron, copper, zinc, manganese) after a water change, because Prime prevents the plants from assimilating these, so it is a waste. API's Tap Water Conditioner does not have this problem.

I also do not like chemicals like the one in Prime getting into my fish, especially when it is not necessary to begin with. There is certainly no benefit to this.

One of our members, might be @AbbeysDad has a line (or did) in his signature about clean water not chemical soups being best for fish. My research over the past few years into fish physiology and the impact of various additives leaves no doubt in my mind that my fish are healthier because I do not use anything that it not absolutely essential for the good of the fish.
This is why I use none of this stuff!
 

Colin_T

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This is why I use none of this stuff!
Not everyone has nice clean water like you do in the mountains of New Zealand. Even in Perth here where I am, the tap water is nasty.

I mix tap water and methylated spirits (ethyl alcohol) for cleaning and disinfection. Ethyl alcohol is the same sort of alcohol in beer, wine and spirits and can normally be watered down with water. It simply dilutes the alcohol. However, when I add tap water to the methy, it turns green, heats up (like instantly hot) and creates a huge amount of gas. This is not meant to happen and does not happen if I use bottled or distilled water. So there is something nasty in the tap water in the southern half of Western Australia. It's only meant to have chlorine and flouride in but there is something going on here and nobody in the government or water company wants to admit to anything. And this issue only started in 2016, before that the tap water did not cause this problem.
 

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