A Few Thoughts On Issues Concerning Tankbusting Fish...

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This is something i have been mulling over in my thoughts over the last week or two.


On this forum, when someone buys a tankbusting fish out of ignorance which happens to grow far too large for the fishkeepers tank and the fishkeeper cannot buy it the right size tank/pond the fish is going to need, we generally advise the person to take the fish back to the petshop or to someone else who can look after the fish better etc.

There are some tankbusting fish in the hobby which grow very large, some of the larger true tanbusters commonly sold are irredescent sharks (grow to 4ft+ long), red tailed catfish (grows up to 4-5ft+ long), pacu's (grows up up 3ft long) and tiger shovelnose catfish (grows up to 3ft long) etc.


There is a simple guide to working out the length and width of the tank you will need for fish which grow to 12inches long or more- to find the length, the tank needs to be 4times the length of the fish, and to find the width, it needs to be twice as long as the fish.
So a fish like a Red Tailed Catfish is going to need an indoor pond or tank in the region of at least 16-20ft+long and 8-10ft wide, and probably about 3-4ft deep. Few people have the space, money or time to have such a monster sized aquarium, and considering the number of RTC sold, the vast majority of these beautiful catfish will end up suffering in aquariums far too small for them, especially considering that a lot of people think a 6x2x2ft tank is a big tank as far as keeping fish goes.



But what happens when a fishkeeper who is keeping an RTC/red tailed catfish in a 150gallon tank rehomes the fish to a petshop because the fish has outgrown the tank? What happens to the RTC after that if the petshop accepts it?
IMHO (in my honest/humble opinion), the RTC probably has just as much hance of finding a decent home as it did in the first place considering that people who have indoor ponds or aquariums which exceed 1000gallons are few and far between when you consider the average sized tank most fishkeepers have.

So in a way by rehoming the RTC, the problem is just been passed onto someone else- i think the whole point of rehoming a fish is to give it a better chance of it finding a better home. But in the situation of a fish like an RTC, that is unlikely to happen.


Now i'm going to say something which is probably quite shocking to some: Would it be more humane to euthanise the RTC than rehome it to a petshop considering that if it gets taken back to the petshop, it will probably get sold to another person with a 100gallon tank, where the RTC may take weeks, months or years to die in after suffering for a great deal of time- surely isn't it better to humanely kill the RTC quickly than to kill it slowly in a tank that is far too small for it?



What are your opinions on this problem with the rehoming of monster size/truely tankbusting fish?

 

[OohFeeshy]

This is an opinion I've held for quite a while, which is why I try to keep away from threads involving true tankbusters (unless, of course, CFC's bought another whale ). The problem being that people who have bought fish like that are either not going to be happy about it at all, or indeed, too attatched. Tankbusters aren't (generally) cheap either, so it's a bit of a bummer to have to kill a fish you've just forked out for. Still though, it's certainly sensible.

 

[SJ2K]

Personly I think euthanising a fish because its a little too big for the general rule is a little excessive, I find it hard to believe that a fish cannot leed a happy life is a tank that isnt exactly 2x nose lengh and 4x eye lash height etc etc (yeh not true just exampling)...If a fish is accustomed to a small environment, how would it know any better? Surely aslong as you care for it just the same it can be equally as happy This is my 2 cents.

 

[starrynightxxi]

I think it depends on just how tank busting the fish is. If we're talking about an RTC, then yes, chances are it's better to be done with it quickly than to slowly kill it or allow someone else to. In the case of, say, a common plec, or some such beast, then I don't think it's appropriate. It's not a black and white issue, because it depends on so many factors.

I think euthanising a fish because its a little too big for the general rule is a little excessive

I think it's not a matter of killing the fish because "it's a little too big". Not, that is, if we're talking RTCs and Pacus. That is a LOT too big. Although I agree that the fish maybe doesn't need to live in IDEAL situations and can still eke out a satisfactory life, for these fish, even substandard is going to be larger than most people can accomodate.

Unfortunately, the people who fall into these traps most often are those new to the hobby and while people should research their pets before buying them, many of them won't. The best we can do is help them pick up the pieces without scaring them off the hobby and I think that between the choice of having to euthanize their new pet and having to return it, returning is less likely to sour them on fishkeeping entirely. I'm not sure I would be comfortable telling someone "I'm sorry, you've bought an inappropriate animal so you should kill it because even if you rehome it, it's still going to die a horrible death."

 

[andywg]

If you cannot provide the right conditions for the fish then the fish has a 0 chance of getting the right housing in your care.

While returning them to the lfs may be a small chance of them getting a big enough tank, there is a greater chance there.

Pure maths would indicate that returning the fish to the lfs gives it a slightly better chance at a decent life. I know that a customer of one of my lfs has a tank over 6 feet in width (forget the length but 15 feet sits in my mind for some reason). So there is a chance, albeit slim.

 

[OohFeeshy]

If a fish is accustomed to a small environment, how would it know any better?

We're not talking weedly little tetras here, these are huge, strong and highly active predatory fish that are more than capable of smashing a tank if it's too small to accomodate their high activity. If you've ever had to catch something like a 8" bichir, they're suprisingly strong. Multiply that a hundredfold and you've got a problem.

Pure maths would indicate that returning the fish to the lfs gives it a slightly better chance at a decent life. I know that a customer of one of my lfs has a tank over 6 feet in width (forget the length but 15 feet sits in my mind for some reason). So there is a chance, albeit slim.

The point being though, that even if someone does have a tank that size, why on earth would they want fish like an RTC or pacu? A very few do, but most people with tanks like that have a clear aim in mind (like rays, aros etc) and aren't going to waste all the money they've spent on the tank stocking it with something common and boring.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

If a fish is accustomed to a small environment, how would it know any better?

We're not talking weedly little tetras here, these are huge, strong and highly active predatory fish that are more than capable of smashing a tank if it's too small to accomodate their high activity. If you've ever had to catch something like a 8" bichir, they're suprisingly strong. Multiply that a hundredfold and you've got a problem.

Pure maths would indicate that returning the fish to the lfs gives it a slightly better chance at a decent life. I know that a customer of one of my lfs has a tank over 6 feet in width (forget the length but 15 feet sits in my mind for some reason). So there is a chance, albeit slim.

The point being though, that even if someone does have a tank that size, why on earth would they want fish like an RTC or pacu? A very few do, but most people with tanks like that have a clear aim in mind (like rays, aros etc) and aren't going to waste all the money they've spent on the tank stocking it with something common and boring.

I agree with OohFeeeshy, if someone had a tank such as Andy stated someone having, why would they want an RTC? RTC have been known to eat fish 2 thirds of their body length, the person wouldn't be able to have any tankmates for the RTC if he was planning on giving them a good quality of life.Not to mention the filtration you'd need, even a 4ft long RTC would probably produce turds the size of the ones a medium sized dog produces.

Pure maths would indicate that returning the fish to the lfs gives it a slightly better chance at a decent life. I know that a customer of one of my lfs has a tank over 6 feet in width (forget the length but 15 feet sits in my mind for some reason). So there is a chance, albeit slim.

Even in such a tank, a full grown RTC would probably not be able to turn around in the tank if its only 6ft wide considering these fish can easily grow up to 4-5ft long.

 

[CFC]

Mmmmmmmmm fresh fish

http/forums.waterwolves.com/how-to-cook-...sh-t103806.html

 

[andywg]

The point being though, that even if someone does have a

tank that size, why on earth would they want fish like an RTC or pacu? A very few do, but most people with tanks like that have a clear aim in mind (like rays, aros etc) and aren't going to waste all the money they've spent on the tank stocking it with something common and boring.

I agree with OohFeeeshy, if someone had a tank such as Andy stated someone having, why would they want an RTC? RTC have been known to eat fish 2 thirds of their body length, the person wouldn't be able to have any tankmates for the RTC if he was planning on giving them a good quality of life.Not to mention the filtration you'd need, even a 4ft long RTC would probably produce turds the size of the ones a medium sized dog produces.

Pure maths would indicate that returning the fish to the lfs gives it a slightly better chance at a decent life. I know that a customer of one of my lfs has a tank over 6 feet in width (forget the length but 15 feet sits in my mind for some reason). So there is a chance, albeit slim.

Even in such a tank, a full grown RTC would probably not be able to turn around in the tank if its only 6ft wide considering these fish can easily grow up to 4-5ft long.

I think a 4-5 foot fish can turn around in a 6 foot tank front to back, unless the fish grows somehow while turning.

And can you not see the folly of claiming anyone with a huge tank would want aros and rays over RTC and TSN? I am pretty sure that if CFC could have a tank large enough for an RTC or two he would. I know I would, and the guy on MFK with the giant tank did. And remind me again, just how many people keep full size rtc? And how many people are all copying each other and getting rays and aros, even on this board?

And the fact still remains, there is a chance of a good life by being returned to the lfs. Not huge, but an infinitely better chance than keeping him yourself when you know you can't provide for it.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Mmmmmmmmm fresh fish

http/forums.waterwolves.com/how-to-cook-...sh-t103806.html

That actually looks really tasty .


I'm a member of a monster fish forum, i've read a lot of stories of people who end up stuck with arapaima's (i believe they grow to over 9-10ft long), end up killing and barbequeing them- apparently they taste very good .

I've only ever known of one person to house an arapaima properly, and that guy had a 50,000gallon aquarium (no kidding! I've seen the picture diary of the making of it and everything), and i certainly don't expect many people to do that, so IMHO i think its totally acceptable to kill and eat such fish .

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I think a 4-5 foot fish can turn around in a 6 foot tank front to back, unless the fish grows somehow while turning.

And can you not see the folly of claiming anyone with a huge tank would want aros and rays over RTC and TSN? I am pretty sure that if CFC could have a tank large enough for an RTC or two he would. I know I would, and the guy on MFK with the giant tank did. And remind me again, just how many people keep full size rtc? And how many people are all copying each other and getting rays and aros, even on this board?

And the fact still remains, there is a chance of a good life by being returned to the lfs. Not huge, but an infinitely better chance than keeping him yourself when you know you can't provide for it.

The fish would basically turn around with difficulty, which is no quality of life considering how instinctively active RTC's get when they're hungry.


Of course there are people who keep RTC properly, but even on MFK there aren't many of those. Also, if you had a large enough tank, its not as simple as that- i know of a guy on the planetcatfish forum who maintained a 20x10x6ft RTC tank for 10years, he ended up giving it up because the maintainence of doing the gigantic water changes on such a tank once a week just became too much work as the years went by.
When you consider that RTC can live to over 25years old, i can't see many people wanting to look after the fish for that long even if they did have a large enough tank.

 

[The-Wolf]

There is a simple guide to working out the length and width of the tank you will need for fish which grow to 12inches long or more- to find the length, the tank needs to be 4times the length of the fish, and to find the width, it needs to be twice as long as the fish.

I thought it was generally accepted to be 3 times the fish length (for tank length)
and 1.5 times fish length (for tank width)?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

There is a simple guide to working out the length and width of the tank you will need for fish which grow to 12inches long or more- to find the length, the tank needs to be 4times the length of the fish, and to find the width, it needs to be twice as long as the fish.

I thought it was generally accepted to be 3 times the fish length (for tank length)
and 1.5 times fish length (for tank width)?

I've read that formula is only for fish which are not very active like pleco's and gourami's.

 

[littlest]

One theory of why it is better to return fish to the LFS is that if people return the fish, the LFS wouldn't need to buy as many, so demand from shops will fall, forcing supply from wholesalers/breeders to fall, so less fish will have to suffer. Like I said, only theory and I have no idea if the number of returns is significant enough to affect supply/demand.

If people routinely returned the fish the LFS might get sick of it and stop stocking them in the first place, which is a good thing IMO.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Mmmmmmmmm fresh fish

http/forums.waterwolves.com/how-to-cook-...sh-t103806.html

I was wondering earlier whether that was an appropriate link to post But I didn't want to spark a debate about it being unsafe to eat. I'd totally do it though. Yum.

Like I said, only theory and I have no idea if the number of returns is significant enough to affect supply/demand.

I'd say not really. For example, there's no guarentee the shop actually will take it back, and is certain to sell it to some other sucker who, in all likelihood, won't take it back at least for a while, and if it's the sort of shop that thinks having them in the first place is a great plan I wouldn't expect them to be great businessmen either.