I’m sorry little fish…

[Magnum Man46 160]

it’s not your fault you were the smallest of the group that got sent here and put into this little glass box, where there is no where to run…

a fate that happens often, from neon tetras to silver dollars… most every schooling fish has a pecking order from highest to lowest, and being the smallest can’t be an easy place to be…

so we can do line of sight breaks, but those don’t often work on schooling fish, until they are at the point of being driven out of the school…

we can try to perfectly match their natural environment, but often the biggest thing missing is the size of the pond, so there is no place to run, and I’d suspect in nature, the outcast dies either from stress, or is eaten, being the smallest and alone… so in reality we are trying to keep something alive, that would be dead in it’s natural environment…

I’m watching a small tiger silver dollar, smaller than the rest, that was perfect when it came here and is either succumbing to what made it smaller in the 1st place, or is getting the bumps and bruises of diving for cover from it’s tank mates… I don’t know how to fix things for the little guy, short of quarantine…

and while he is not a cichlid, my previous extensive cichlid experience has shown, if I remove him, give him special treatment, and grow him larger, and in better health, he is likely to still be the bottom of the pack, if put back in, even a year or more later…

so what do you guys do with your “bottom of the pack” fish??? it seems if it’s a neon, smaller and the same as all the rest, they just die and you may not even realize it until later, but a larger and more unique fish, you tend to notice their ugly life…

I’m sorry little fish…

 

[GaryE6 4]

It really depends on the species. If I have larger tanks, big groups and a good set up for tiny fish, it works. If the fish are aggressive, like those ones you have can be, you can't win without getting larger tanks or more tanks.

At least ten fish, maybe more if I can afford it. Never ever 3 of any species. And even with that, things can go awry. I try to choose species that don't pick at the subordinates in the pecking order. But like you, I try species not well known in the hobby and things can go wrong.

 

[GaryE6 4]

If you get a dozen shoaling fish and put them in a large enough aquarium with a well designed (for them) layout, chances are you can still have a dozen years later. In a too small tank, you'll have six. With larger numbers of shoalers, the pecking orders don't seem as important.
With territorial fish, how many survive depends on how many adequate territories we offer, and that usually comes around to tank size again. That's really where the horror stories of fish being murdered by each other originate. A lot of us have seen angel fish rip up the weakest link.

I think we have thinking to do with these things. It's not just "nature savage in tooth and claw" in our tanks. A lot of it is how our human desires make us set up and create the perfect conditions for things to go wrong. Overcrowding, buying small numbers of real shoalers and too many temporary shoalers (fish that shoal only to a certain age) , all kinds of errors on our part contribute to what we see. We can't fix or avoid them all, and I think sometimes by the time we figure the problems out we're past our own due dates as aquarists. I still have a really hard time convincing myself not to overcrowd and to give fish the space they need and the numbers they need. As a fishkeeper, it's hard to adapt to the needs of the fish, and not force the fish to adapt to our needs. The rule for us as people enjoying the hobby isn't that different from what happens in nature. Those who adapt survive.

 

[Magnum Man46 160]

then there s also still the question of why I have one cardinal, and one rummy nose in my mixed tetra tank, when both of those fish started as groups of 12 and 15, and for the last year there has been one of each??? in fact those two fish hang together, never more than 6 inches apart… yet both started from what would be considered a “large enough” school size…

 

[GaryE6 4]

then there s also still the question of why I have one cardinal, and one rummy nose in my mixed tetra tank, when both of those fish started as groups of 12 and 15, and for the last year there has been one of each??? in fact those two fish hang together, never more than 6 inches apart… yet both started from what would be considered a “large enough” school size…

I don't get what the question is. A cardinal is long lived, and groups get whittled down by attrition. I've never beat 5 years with rummys, but I think that's on me. I'm not sure what their proper lifespan away from predators is.

I always try to top up my shoals as I go along, but you can't always get what you're looking for. I have a few shrinking ones.

 

[Innesfan44 6]

I don't get what the question is. A cardinal is long lived, and groups get whittled down by attrition. I've never beat 5 years with rummys, but I think that's on me. I'm not sure what their proper lifespan away from predators is.

I don't think it's on you. My cousin, also an advanced aquarist, and I have never broken 5 years with any of the three rummies. While we both have had many schools of characins thrive and endure far longer, including Nannostomus.