A Few Questions
- Thread starter jackkikz
- Start date
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Ahh, thanks friends! I'm just a beginner myself (a "re-beginner" lol) but I've learned so much from the experienced ones here that I've enjoyed trying to give some back. I get a little worried about my beginner newbies on a weekend like this when I'll be off watching kid baseball tournaments 
all weekend but I know other members will take care of them!
~~waterdrop~~
all weekend but I know other members will take care of them!~~waterdrop~~
OOOOOOOOOH, i never thought i could get so excited by fishless cycling!!! My ammonia has dropped down to 0ish and done my first nitrite test went purple straight away, which i have read means its high, but it ends up at 0.5.Although my spirits were dampened slightly as when i was adding ammonia to put it back at 4ppm i took in such a deep breath of ammonia i was almost sick
Also i have noticed that there is this weird white/clear stuff with bubbles in growing on my bogwood, anyone know what that is?
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
There are lots of weird biofilms, fungus and stuff in a cycling tank. Its normal and you'll eventually clean it away so don't worry about it.
~~waterdrop~~
~~waterdrop~~
My ammonia is now dropping to 0 very quickly, about every 12 hours, so i am now topping up with ammonia twice a day, is this correct? I think the nitrites are still high as the liquid goes very purple at the bottom straight away before going light purple.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
No, you only ever top up ammonia once per 24 hours at your "add point" that you've decided on. Many make this evening, like 7 or 8pm, so that they and add and then see at the 12 hour point in the morning before they go to work what the 12-hour results are. Each 1ppm of ammonia creates 2.7ppm of nitrite, so if you add more than once per 24 hours during the later stages of cycling, you will just be creating too big a mountain of nitrite for the N-Bacs to get through.
~~waterdrop~~
~~waterdrop~~
Me again, the nitrite test is still going purple at the bottom straight away, but then going light blue after 5 mins. Does this mean it is still high or its at zero?
Also, once its all done and i have do change the filters, do i change the filters, or does this get rid of all the good bacteria?
Also, once its all done and i have do change the filters, do i change the filters, or does this get rid of all the good bacteria?
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Yes, its correct that a properly cycled 5ppm fishless procedure allows for an enormous full stocking, should one desire to do that, but in practice that's extremely rare.
What happens is that the work of figuring out ones "stocking list" is quite difficult. Beginners often have no clue how much work this will be. What you have to do is start with fish you fancy, either by seeing them at the LFS or in pictures and then you have to "look them up" both here on TFF and other sites if necessary. Its like proper homework with you needing to take notes on how big they get and all sorts of other details. Then you have to post up trial stocking lists and try to get people to critique them.
The first problem is not going over your volume stocking limits. The next problem is fitting minimum shoal sizes to that. The next problem is whether the species are compatible with the other species you want. The next problem is whether they will have different compatibility problems as they grow to maximum size or try to breed. Nobody gets it perfect but the deeper you delve into these things the closer you will get to the least future problems.
So, to answer your question now, what happens is that during all this stocking list work you usually find that some of the species you want are -not- species that go well in an immature tank. Neon/Cardinal tetras are a prime example, needing a 4 to 6-month old tank beyond fishless cycling. Also, most experienced aquarists like to wait 6 months or so before introducing their "centerpiece" fish that are sometimes quite expensive, to give the best chances of success.
OK, so why then should one bother with the big 5ppm cycling?? Well, it turns out that this produces the most robust and successful cycled filters, able to drop back down to whatever you actually stock at and then very unlikely to mini-spike on you when you do reasonable new fish introductions later as you grow the tank. It really makes a huge difference in the health of the tank!
~~waterdrop~~
What happens is that the work of figuring out ones "stocking list" is quite difficult. Beginners often have no clue how much work this will be. What you have to do is start with fish you fancy, either by seeing them at the LFS or in pictures and then you have to "look them up" both here on TFF and other sites if necessary. Its like proper homework with you needing to take notes on how big they get and all sorts of other details. Then you have to post up trial stocking lists and try to get people to critique them.
The first problem is not going over your volume stocking limits. The next problem is fitting minimum shoal sizes to that. The next problem is whether the species are compatible with the other species you want. The next problem is whether they will have different compatibility problems as they grow to maximum size or try to breed. Nobody gets it perfect but the deeper you delve into these things the closer you will get to the least future problems.
So, to answer your question now, what happens is that during all this stocking list work you usually find that some of the species you want are -not- species that go well in an immature tank. Neon/Cardinal tetras are a prime example, needing a 4 to 6-month old tank beyond fishless cycling. Also, most experienced aquarists like to wait 6 months or so before introducing their "centerpiece" fish that are sometimes quite expensive, to give the best chances of success.
OK, so why then should one bother with the big 5ppm cycling?? Well, it turns out that this produces the most robust and successful cycled filters, able to drop back down to whatever you actually stock at and then very unlikely to mini-spike on you when you do reasonable new fish introductions later as you grow the tank. It really makes a huge difference in the health of the tank!
~~waterdrop~~
OK, its probably better not adding them all at once monetry wise anyway. I have to say i am kind of struggling a bit choosing my fish, as i want fish that look good and have personality, that arent too small, arent too big, colourful, peaceful, mix well, and i think i would eventually like to get some bolivian rams or kribensis as my centrepiece so they cant be fin-nippers too, any ideas? I would quite like some coral red / ruby red pencil fish too as they are cool.
Oh and do you know if i change the filters as normal after the fishless cycle or not?
Oh and do you know if i change the filters as normal after the fishless cycle or not?
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
I'm not the best at fish suggestions so I'll leave that to others.
When you finish your fishless cycle and do the big water change the filters are usually not overly dirty because there haven't been fish in there. Of course you record the event in your logbook and it marks the beginning for your maintenance schedules. The two most fundamental habits to establish are the weekly water change and the monthly filter clean. These things are not set in stone but these habits are a really great way to get started for the first year and I recommend them to all beginners. Try as hard as possible to perform the weekly gravel clean water change, changing anywhere from 25% to 60% depending perhaps on whether you feel your tap water parameters help you. In many cases the tap water will help those with soft/acid water, so those people usually like to change larger amounts to help maintain their KH.
The filter clean is another essential element of maintenance. If the flow of a filter ever slows visibly, then its time to clean it. Otherwise, if you see nothing wrong then one month is a good starting habit as said. Perform the first cleaning one month after the big water change. Use a coarse sponge to clean all the interior tank walls, whether you see algae or not. Perform the gravel clean, removing water and saving at least a bucket of tank water for the filter clean. Remove and clean any decorations as desired. Unplug the filter and shut off the cutoff valves or otherwise follow its instructions. Remove the filter to the tub or wash sink. Gently open the filter as needed and clean the media: dunk any trays of ceramics or bioballs in tank water. Dunk and swish several times. Firmly but not excessively squeeze any sponges in the tank water. Follow instructions to clean your impeller and impeller well. Gently remove any o-ring seals and take the time to completely coat them in the vasoline-like lubricant your manufacturer supplies, or use plain vasoline itself. Making this a habit at each cleaning will help your o-rings to last forever, rather than oxidizing and breaking. Carefully reassemble the filter, taking care not to twist or pinch any of the o-ring seals. If its an external cannister, reattach the hoses and open the shutoffs, then walk away allowing a long, long time to be sure the filter box fully fills with tank water. When its totally full, come back and plug in the pump, manually priming if necessary. When all is running correctly, gently lift the filter box from its safety water catch and tilt it 45 degrees in all directions, giving a gentle vibration movement at each angle. Each time this frees some air bubbles, give it time to recover before you loose too many, otherwise it will cavitate and require re-priming. For internal filters, you can shake them underwater to acheive the same thing and HOBs hardly need any of this. Top up your tank and adjust your spraybar to the desired level of surface disturbance.
Make sure you re-dose any plant fertilizers after you re-scape your substrate and decorations. In the months following fishless cycling, make note of your nitrate(NO3) readings and see whether your monthly filter cleans help you to maintain NO3 at between 5 and 20ppm above whatever NO3 level your tap water has. If your fish-load/filter combination is such that this seems hard to acheive then you may need filter cleans that are more frequent than monthly, or you may even eventually need more filtration or fish re-homing. Even on large external cannister filters that could go for 6 weeks or several months between cleanings, I feel that its better to adopt the monthly habit if possible. It tends to avoid excess mulm buildup and keeps you away from other buildup problems. Obviously smaller filters may need more frequent cleanings, perhaps every other week. While ceramics and good sponges can last a lifetime, all filters benefit from more frequent replacement of whatever polyfloss or other fine mechanical filtration media is present. It varies when this is needed.
~~waterdrop~~
When you finish your fishless cycle and do the big water change the filters are usually not overly dirty because there haven't been fish in there. Of course you record the event in your logbook and it marks the beginning for your maintenance schedules. The two most fundamental habits to establish are the weekly water change and the monthly filter clean. These things are not set in stone but these habits are a really great way to get started for the first year and I recommend them to all beginners. Try as hard as possible to perform the weekly gravel clean water change, changing anywhere from 25% to 60% depending perhaps on whether you feel your tap water parameters help you. In many cases the tap water will help those with soft/acid water, so those people usually like to change larger amounts to help maintain their KH.
The filter clean is another essential element of maintenance. If the flow of a filter ever slows visibly, then its time to clean it. Otherwise, if you see nothing wrong then one month is a good starting habit as said. Perform the first cleaning one month after the big water change. Use a coarse sponge to clean all the interior tank walls, whether you see algae or not. Perform the gravel clean, removing water and saving at least a bucket of tank water for the filter clean. Remove and clean any decorations as desired. Unplug the filter and shut off the cutoff valves or otherwise follow its instructions. Remove the filter to the tub or wash sink. Gently open the filter as needed and clean the media: dunk any trays of ceramics or bioballs in tank water. Dunk and swish several times. Firmly but not excessively squeeze any sponges in the tank water. Follow instructions to clean your impeller and impeller well. Gently remove any o-ring seals and take the time to completely coat them in the vasoline-like lubricant your manufacturer supplies, or use plain vasoline itself. Making this a habit at each cleaning will help your o-rings to last forever, rather than oxidizing and breaking. Carefully reassemble the filter, taking care not to twist or pinch any of the o-ring seals. If its an external cannister, reattach the hoses and open the shutoffs, then walk away allowing a long, long time to be sure the filter box fully fills with tank water. When its totally full, come back and plug in the pump, manually priming if necessary. When all is running correctly, gently lift the filter box from its safety water catch and tilt it 45 degrees in all directions, giving a gentle vibration movement at each angle. Each time this frees some air bubbles, give it time to recover before you loose too many, otherwise it will cavitate and require re-priming. For internal filters, you can shake them underwater to acheive the same thing and HOBs hardly need any of this. Top up your tank and adjust your spraybar to the desired level of surface disturbance.
Make sure you re-dose any plant fertilizers after you re-scape your substrate and decorations. In the months following fishless cycling, make note of your nitrate(NO3) readings and see whether your monthly filter cleans help you to maintain NO3 at between 5 and 20ppm above whatever NO3 level your tap water has. If your fish-load/filter combination is such that this seems hard to acheive then you may need filter cleans that are more frequent than monthly, or you may even eventually need more filtration or fish re-homing. Even on large external cannister filters that could go for 6 weeks or several months between cleanings, I feel that its better to adopt the monthly habit if possible. It tends to avoid excess mulm buildup and keeps you away from other buildup problems. Obviously smaller filters may need more frequent cleanings, perhaps every other week. While ceramics and good sponges can last a lifetime, all filters benefit from more frequent replacement of whatever polyfloss or other fine mechanical filtration media is present. It varies when this is needed.
~~waterdrop~~
Thank you again waterdrop, that is an incredibly detailed answer and really interesting and helpful information and advice, i was kind of just expecting a yes!
As for fish, do you or anyone else see any problem with keeping these fish. I wont be adding them all at once and i see having them as more of a long term aim and investment. Also, the list will probably change or i will forget some of them or not be able to get hold of some of them.
I was thinking of getting:
Some Sparkling Gourami/ Pygmy Gourami
Some Coral Red Pencilfish
A couple of Zebra Oto and/or Fin Blotch Cory Cat
A few Bolivian Rams
A couple of Kribnsisses (dont know plural!)
A couple of Pearl Gourami and/or Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami
A few Steel Blue Killifish
A few Black Mollies
A Betta
Possibly a couple of Swordtails
I think this is too many but i wont be getting them all, this is more of a shortlist. Ive put the ones in bold that i definately want. Are there any compatability issues here and do you have any suggestions to add to these? Also, which ones do you think i should add first?
Cheers, J.
As for fish, do you or anyone else see any problem with keeping these fish. I wont be adding them all at once and i see having them as more of a long term aim and investment. Also, the list will probably change or i will forget some of them or not be able to get hold of some of them.
I was thinking of getting:
Some Sparkling Gourami/ Pygmy Gourami
Some Coral Red Pencilfish
A couple of Zebra Oto and/or Fin Blotch Cory Cat
A few Bolivian Rams
A couple of Kribnsisses (dont know plural!)
A couple of Pearl Gourami and/or Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami
A few Steel Blue Killifish
A few Black Mollies
A Betta
Possibly a couple of Swordtails
I think this is too many but i wont be getting them all, this is more of a shortlist. Ive put the ones in bold that i definately want. Are there any compatability issues here and do you have any suggestions to add to these? Also, which ones do you think i should add first?
Cheers, J.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Having different species of gouramis (and the betta, which is like them) in together, the males, can potentially end in rough fights, but I'm not familiar enough to know whether some combo of the ones you mention might be worked out together somehow. I do know that the kissings can get quite rough.
We do have quite a few members who are good with Kribs and Rams and hopefully will comment. We also have people who are quite good with livebearers and might comment on the mollys and swords.
I can tell you that you are certainly somewhere outside many of the "ordinary" beginner fish but I'm not experienced enough with all of the ones you mention to come up with more useful comments! Good Luck!
~~waterdrop~~
We do have quite a few members who are good with Kribs and Rams and hopefully will comment. We also have people who are quite good with livebearers and might comment on the mollys and swords.
I can tell you that you are certainly somewhere outside many of the "ordinary" beginner fish but I'm not experienced enough with all of the ones you mention to come up with more useful comments! Good Luck!
~~waterdrop~~
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