A Few Questions

[jackkikz]

Well that explains it, got my new test kit today and tested the water and it came out to 8ppm or maybe a bit more! Great. With the interpet easytest ammonia kit it comes out as about 0, so DONT BUY THAT ONE. Im going to take it back today and say it doesnt work, dont know what they will say though, might also write an email to interpet saying it doesnt work.

So, i think im going to use the Add and Wait method as i dont think i can do the add every day method now ive added far too much, and hopefully it will go down to 1ppm soon, although adding too much can severely slow down the process, bloody non working test has cost me.

 

[waterdrop]

Well that's very interesting. I've been reluctant to say negative things about particular kits given the small sample sizes and non-scientific nature of what we do around here but this is now yet another of several reports from members of problems with interpet kits simply giving wrong results!

Jack, you're going to want to change out some water as an 8ppm concentration will enourage the wrong species of bacteria. Just try to get it down to something that looks close to 4ppm on your new API ammonia test.

Yes, in fact the Add&Wait method one is almost the only one we ever talk about and do around here, so you are choosing the right one for getting the best help.

Glad you are really starting to get on the right track now despite all the odd startup problems!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Bobtastic]

I'm glad that you've pinned down the problem. Who'd have thought that it would be the test kit... Most strange...

You could take pictures of both the results from each of the tests and show them to the shop as evidence.

 

[jackkikz]

Well, just been to the fish shop i got the test from and told the guy who worked there that it didnt work and what ive dont and he said "why the hell are you putting ammonia in your tank? ill get my boss". The boss took great offence to me saying the test doesnt work, saying he had been using them for 20 years and they are far more accurate than liquid tests and didnt give me a refund, but instead gave me a new box of tests!

Anyway, ive done about a 30-40 percent water change, and will run a new test in an hour to see if ive got it to about 4-5ppm.

Thanks for your help, Jack.

 

[waterdrop]

Well, its true it could have just been a bum kit. I'd test the new kit he gave you, out of curiosity, against the API kit. We know that API hide their expiration dates in the lot numbers or some sort of number. Perhaps we can discover whether (Interpet, is that it?) has a clear expiration date or where they hide it in their numbers... At least that would be one thing to check out. Are the instructions for using the (Interpet tablet based ammonia test?) test clear and you think you are executing them correctly?

All of that is just a curiosity though. I'm inclined to think the API kit is obviously telling you the right thing because you've said the bottle of ammonia gives off the typical strong fumes and that would mean you should certainly be getting a typical reading like the rest of us do and like the API kit is getting!

Once you start to get involved in the real hobby on a level like we see it here on TFF, the visits to the LFS can feel pretty strange! Its got to give you a bit of a mental chuckle to have a fishkeeping section employee go running off all shocked that you are putting ammonia in your tank - clearly shows you the person doesn't have the background that even you as a beginner have already received here on TFF. My approach is to try to use the brick and mortar (LFS) stores as a place to buy fish and supplies but not as an information source. I always try to build a positive and friendly relationship with all the people that work at my local places because I know they may sometimes be my only source for getting certain things quickly and I want to keep the relationship good. But it can be tricky sometimes being friendly, which means talking about the hobby usually, and still avoiding any controversial areas. I just figure the shops are in an entirely different world from mine. The differences between shops and hobbyists doesn't at all preclude there being shopkeepers with lots of experience in the hobby, its just that many of them have conflicting goals and very different problems to deal with than hobbyists.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jackkikz]

I know what you mean, i cant believe i know more about some fish keeping things than him already. He does seem particularly dim though, and i remember when my mum got her first tank i went along after having it a few days and he basically said it was fine to chuck the fish in already and recommended we started with neon tetras, which i know from reading on here that they arent the hardiest of fish and much prefer a well cycled tank. Needless to say they mostly died fairly quickly.

Done the ammonia test now after water change and its at about 6ppm, so ill just leave that for a few days and test it every now and then.

Cheers, Jack.

 

[jackkikz]

I have another question as i have read conflicting views on this, can i add plants whilst doing my fishless cycle?

 

[waterdrop]

Its hard explaining about plants and fishless cycles...

First it depends on your previous experience. If you are already somehow a planted tank experienced person you may be able to create the right situation in a tank to not even do a fishless cycle but instead do what's sometimes called a "silent cycle" where the huge mass of healthy growing plants will minimize the number of water changes needed for what is technically a fish-in cycle but which shows zero ammonia/nitrite throughout the process if you get it balanced right.

I'm going to assume that's not you, but I needed to add it for completeness. For the average beginner the problem is usually that the excess of ammonia used in a fishless cycle will trigger lots of brown algae, particularly if too much light is used and too few plants. This algae will be difficult to clean off of the plants later and also off the substrate and decorations.

Assuming you want to avoid the algae problem there are two paths one could take. First, you could decide on a "blacked out, bare tank" fishless cycle. To do this you only run the filter on the tank of water, nothing else is added to the tank except the heater and you black out any light from the tank by taping black plastic around the tank. Without light the algae can't grow and after the filter is cycled and you start the real tank up, there won't be the excess ammonia to trigger the algae.

A second, completely different approach is to fishless cycle with plants and light, but to consider the plants to be "throw-aways." What you do is get masses of cheap stem plants like elodea/anacharis and just mass them in the tank in pretty large numbers. One possible side benefit of this is that you may get some "stowaway" beneficial bacteria coming in with the plants which might help a little if you have no mature media source. On the other hand, having a lot of plants will confuse your readings somewhat when you try to interpret where you are in the progress of your fishless cycle. Large masses of plants will potentially absorb a fair amount of the ammonia and nitrate in the water. So that might argue for not going overboard on the number of plants.

Note that the "plant" approach is a pretty good one when you have a spouse, child or family who are having a hard time accepting that the tank will be empty of fish for a few months for fishless cycling.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Anna Robinson]

StressZyme won't have done anything as I believe its just some dead bacteria in a bottle

Er, it isn't, actually. API couldn't say on the bottle "each teaspoon contains a minimum of 345 million live bacteria" if that wasn't true. In fact tests show even at the expiry date it still delivers more viable and active bacteria than is claimed on the bottle.

This misconception comes about because Stress Zyme does not contain nitrifying bacteria, it contains heterotrophic bacteria. These bacteria help to digest and break down organic compounds that would otherwise inhibit the initial growth of the biological filter (by clogging pores and consuming oxygen). Stress Zyme shortens the development time of the biological filter in new aquariums.

 

[waterdrop]

StressZyme won't have done anything as I believe its just some dead bacteria in a bottle

Er, it isn't, actually. API couldn't say on the bottle "each teaspoon contains a minimum of 345 million live bacteria" if that wasn't true. In fact tests show even at the expiry date it still delivers more viable and active bacteria than is claimed on the bottle.

This misconception comes about because Stress Zyme does not contain nitrifying bacteria, it contains heterotrophic bacteria. These bacteria help to digest and break down organic compounds that would otherwise inhibit the initial growth of the biological filter (by clogging pores and consuming oxygen). Stress Zyme shortens the development time of the biological filter in new aquariums.

But it surprises me that anyone would think any extra heterotrophs are needed given that you can get a big bacterial bloom of them in just about any tank where nothing extra has been added...?

 

[ellena]

What are you using to test for ammonia? You really need to get one of the API kits-if you don't want to get them all (although I recommend you do-try eBay) they sell them individually in pets at home about £7.

 

[jackkikz]

Yeh, i have now purchased the API master kit and am using that, and im glad to say all is going to plan after the earlier strange test results from the Interpet tablet "easytest".

 

[waterdrop]

Oh! That's good to hear!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Whitester]

waterdrop,
I have been reading this thread and I must say. You are excellent! You write extremely well. Your thoughts are clear and well as your suggestions. You try to cover everything when you give advice. I just wanted to say thanks. You have impressed me greatly with your knowledge, kindness, and thoroughness. Keep up the good work. I am sure everyone appreciates your input.

 

[jackkikz]

I sure do! Without Waterdrops help id have a tank of dead fish by now!