9 Fish Dead This Morning

[baker360360]

Had a post on here recently about white spot. Started treatment, raised temp to 28c and added more airation as instructed. Added second treatment as instructed after 30% water change. This morning 9 fish dead.. Out of them were 7 glass cats and 2 tiger barbs

The 2 tigers showed a lot of whit spot damage the day before and I knew they probably were not gonna make it but the glass cats looked fine ( no visual effected areas and no bad breathing )

Do you think the treatment could be the cause for such a large amount to die ?

Also my test have come back with a little ammonia and nitrite and no nitrate
2 filters ( external / new and internal/ 6 months old cycled) could my tank now be un cycled ?

 

[attibones]

Looks like you are going through a mini-cycle. Could be from the amount of dead fish though. Do an immediate water change, very large, test twelve hours later.

What's the full stock? Size of tank? Aren't glass cats scaleless fish? If so, the medicine could have killed them. Did you lose your whole school of glass cats?
Also, is this a planted tank?

 

[baker360360]

If I do water change won't it take out the treatment? It's ment to last upto 7 days to kill all free swimming parasites and I water changed yesterday.

I have left 4 tiger barbs 2 angles 8 guppies 3 glass cats 1 betta 1 stripe cat 1 chubby plec
190l + approx 10l I. The external

Didn't lose all glass cats , 3 left but they look bad

Yes planted , about 9 plants and java moss

 

[attibones]

Wow. First, it is of my opinion that your tank is above capacity, particularly before the deaths. Anyway, ich (white spot) frequently occurs with stressed fish. When the fish is stressed, immune system lowers, secondary disease occurs. Have you added new stock recently?

What I'm thinking is this:
Too many fish, not enough space
Several semi-aggressive species, not enough space for appropriate territories
A pleco, a very messy fish, which is probably too large for the tank now (assuming it is a common)

All of that seems to be a breeding ground for stress and secondary infections, parasites (such as ich), etc.
I would do the water change in order to reduce the ammonia, then dose the medicine again, but I'm not sure if you should do a whole or half dose.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Wow. First, it is of my opinion that your tank is above capacity, particularly before the deaths. Anyway, ich (white spot) frequently occurs with stressed fish. When the fish is stressed, immune system lowers, secondary disease occurs. Have you added new stock recently?

What I'm thinking is this:
Too many fish, not enough space
Several semi-aggressive species, not enough space for appropriate territories
A pleco, a very messy fish, which is probably too large for the tank now (assuming it is a common)

All of that seems to be a breeding ground for stress and secondary infections, parasites (such as ich), etc.

+1
 
A particularly good opinion I think.

 

[attibones]

You'll also want to do a very thorough substrate vacuuming as ich thrives in the substrate before it is free swimming and attached.

 

[baker360360]

Wow. First, it is of my opinion that your tank is above capacity, particularly before the deaths. Anyway, ich (white spot) frequently occurs with stressed fish. When the fish is stressed, immune system lowers, secondary disease occurs. Have you added new stock recently?What I'm thinking is this:Too many fish, not enough spaceSeveral semi-aggressive species, not enough space for appropriate territoriesA pleco, a very messy fish, which is probably too large for the tank now (assuming it is a common)All of that seems to be a breeding ground for stress and secondary infections, parasites (such as ich), etc.I would do the water change in order to reduce the ammonia, then dose the medicine again, but I'm not sure if you should do a whole or half dose.

Got 5 tiger barbs day before outbreak

Plec is only 3 inch max at the moment
Planning on rehomeing plec and stripe cat ( also only a couple of inches)

You'll also want to do a very thorough substrate vacuuming as ich thrives in the substrate before it is free swimming and attached.

Done this yesterday also

It's sand btw , will this make it even harder to clear the parasites?

 

[attibones]

The barbs probably carried it in.

Having sand can be a royal pain in only a few situations and this is one of them. They'll be harder to kill at this life stage with sand (obviously we don't want to break your vac).

 

[baker360360]

The barbs probably carried it in.

Having sand can be a royal pain in only a few situations and this is one of them. They'll be harder to kill at this life stage with sand (obviously we don't want to break your vac).

what about if I put all fish and some water into a big create and while the tank is empty turn all the sand over (basically make a big mess ) will this expose the parasites to the treatment?

 

[Meeresstille]

As I understand any medication kills the parasite only in its free swimmer stage. Gravel vacs will help reduce the amount of cysts that have buried into the substrate by suctioning them away. Less cysts will produce less free swimmers, and if you have less free swimmers, the less chance of them re-attaching to the fish!
 
This is the same if you do the heat and salt method to treat ich. The salt pulls the liquid out of the cells of the parasite in its free swimmer stage killing it. During any of the other stages (spots on fish, cysts in substrate) it has no effect. The heat only speeds up the life cycle, so you get them into the free swimmer stage quicker. To kill the parasite with heat you would have to use more than 86 F and many fish can not tolerate that.
 
Just googled it 
It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]
 
The info is from here: http/www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php

 

[KirkyArcher]

Sorry to hear of your problems,  Is there a chance you may have overmedicated? Is your tanks volume of water actually 190 + 10 litres? As I posted in another thread recently actual volume of water is usually 10-15% less due to ornaments, stones plants and substrate than the measured LxWxH empty tank would indicate. 

 

[baker360360]

Sorry to hear of your problems,  Is there a chance you may have overmedicated? Is your tanks volume of water actually 190 + 10 litres? As I posted in another thread recently actual volume of water is usually 10-15% less due to ornaments, stones plants and substrate than the measured LxWxH empty tank would indicate. 

190+10 water only so yeah would actually have less. the treatment said that over medicating could un cycle a tank this may explain why I now have ammonia and nitrite. I know when I got some king British algae eliminator the instructions said that if you have "scale less fish " use half but I couldn't see this warning any where with the white spot treatment, as im thinking the glass cats may come under "scale less" that's why 7 died over night the day I medicated. also I was careful not to put too much as I didn't want to un cycle my tank but as I done it after 4 days (as it instructed) and the 30% water change (before redoing)  there still would have been 70% treated water as the treatment lasts 7 days, how ever the instructions don't say anything about this and just state that second treatment to be applied after 4days
there are so many factors here that could be the cause
 
1) white spot itself
2) overdosing
3)something went wrong with water change
4)raised temp
5)enough oxygen (temp raised but I think it was ok)

 

[baker360360]

Another glass cat and my stripe cat died last night

 

[attibones]

What brand are you using? You are losing most of your scale-less fish which seems to me that the medicine you are using is not appropriate for them.

 

[baker360360]

Interpet, I also think this is the reason so many have died, shocked that the leaflet or box/Bottle gave any warning like king British do.
Also looked online ( googled) and found that interpret white spot no6 shouldn't harm scaleless fish as its actually weaker that other brands, however it's looking very suspect to me.

Also I failed to mention that day before glass cats died ( after second treatment) all the glass cats looked bad like they had fin rot or something.
And the last few day my betta has been attached to the inlet of the internal filter more that usual