46 Gallon Tank In Cycling Stages

[Mr Bliss]

I think you can expect minor fluctuations in ammonia and nitrite readings (in both directions) because you have plants in the tank. On one hand, plants can use all three forms of nitrogen (nitrate, nitrite, ammonia) as a nutrient so they'll consume them at a rate proportional to their growth (which isn't constant from day to day). Which of the three they primarily use depends on plant species and the relative concentrations of the nitrogen compounds, but from an energy efficiency standpoint, ammonia is the "easiest" nutrient for plants to use. On the other hand, unhealthy/dying plant leaves will release ammonia back into the tank.

Bacterial biofilms are complicated things. The nitrifiers aren't the only bacteria living in the filter. Any organic carbon (including dead nitrifying bacteria, as they're not immortal) in the water will give rise to heterotrophic bacteria colonizing the filter too, and competition between bacteria can slow down the cycling process temporarily. This is probably part of what causes the "stutter effect" waterdrop mentioned.

All we can say for sure, in my opinion, is that your cycling is going through a slow phase. This isn't uncommon. Just hang in there, it will be worth the wait in the end.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, good comments there from Mr Bliss.

Also, just in terms of sheer time, you've just edged above the one-month mark and a lot of them take a tiny bit over two months and yet yours looks closer to the end than a lot of those did, so at this point you are still looking ok from what I can see.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

Ok that's good to hear, thanks guys. I've been removing dead leaves from the tank, there haven't been many though. I will hopefully do a water change sometime this week, it's been a while since the last one and the small snails have left their droppings. It's tricky to gravel vac (have a python syphon) without uprooting the plants, since the syphon tube is so large, but not much I can do about that.

I'm not sure why I just explained that but there's a lot of time to spare when watching a tank cycle.

 

[waterdrop]

Ok that's good to hear, thanks guys. I've been removing dead leaves from the tank, there haven't been many though. I will hopefully do a water change sometime this week, it's been a while since the last one and the small snails have left their droppings. It's tricky to gravel vac (have a python syphon) without uprooting the plants, since the syphon tube is so large, but not much I can do about that.

I'm not sure why I just explained that but there's a lot of time to spare when watching a tank cycle.

I completely understand. I'm still finding ways to refine my actions with my Python's gravel cleaning cylinder. Just to make things harder I always loop the hose around my central top brace in the tank so then I have to not only deal with the cylinder but also some extra loops of hose! But my routine has become more and more refined. One thing to watch out for early on when you get fish is to not crush them with the gravel cylinder - unfortunately it can happen! So just go slowly and patiently. Also, put a "catch bucket" at the other end of the Python hose so that you have an extra chance of retrieving those zebra danios if they take a ride . You can start the siphon by lifting it vertically in the upright position (full of water) and then rather quickly (but don't splash your room!) lowering it into the tank so the siphon can continue. This way you can remove water from your tank without using the faucet valve thing and wasting tap water.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

Thanks for the pointers WD, very helpful! I didn't even think of the bucket idea, although I don't think any of my stock will be able to get through the tubing (except possibly the harlequins), better to be safe than sorry.

Today the pH was back to what it should be after the baking soda, 7.6, the ammonia was 0 again, but the nitrite was at 0.6 ppm. I'm just glad the other two are back to normal.

 

[waterdrop]

The other thing I like the catch bucket for is to have something to gather a cup of water from for temp matching at the sink at that end. And of course the catch bucket is the water the filter media gets cleaned in if its time for that maintenance.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

I did a 40% water change yesterday to see if that would help get things back on track. So far it hasn't, the nitrite just doesn't want to reach the promise land!

I'm just hoping that this finishes soon, our favorite LFS sent sale coupons so if we are able to get fish by November 30 they would be 25% off, which would save about 25 bucks on livestock.

 

[waterdrop]

When fishless cycling its always more effective to change out all of the water down to the substrate and to be quite aggressive in cleaning the gravel during the out-siphon. This maximizes the clean-out of nitrite and nitrate and of course maximizes the Ca and Iron that come in the return water. "Percentage" water changes have no meaning outside the context of minimizing shocks to fish, except of course you may not have had the time for the full change I realize.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

When fishless cycling its always more effective to change out all of the water down to the substrate and to be quite aggressive in cleaning the gravel during the out-siphon. This maximizes the clean-out of nitrite and nitrate and of course maximizes the Ca and Iron that come in the return water. "Percentage" water changes have no meaning outside the context of minimizing shocks to fish, except of course you may not have had the time for the full change I realize.

~~waterdrop~~

Ah I didn't even realize that, I knew that the 40% change wouldn't do much (though I did do well gravel vacuuming I believe), but didn't think I should do that large of a change. I would think I would still want to leave at least 10% water in there since there are live plants, wouldn't want them to droop too much. Thanks.

 

[waterdrop]

Well yes, if you've got established rooted plants then you'll want to make a judgement call on not drooping them too much, which might even allow you to just leave your cannister filter running if its got a deep intake tube, lol. But if they're all stem plants you could just pull them and float them in the catch bucket where the siphon is sending the outgoing tank water, then rescape the plants and gravel after the water change.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

October 27
-Morning- pH: 6.7, Ammonia: 1.4 ppm, Nitrite: 0.8 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.

Okay, it has almost been 50 days of recording results, and even more considering some bacteria was built up before recording the results here.

I really don't know what to do, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. I know it's common for this to take a while, but from reading through other threads usually the results are more consistant. It seems that one day the tank is almost cycled (a few weeks ago it was extremely close, then it got screwed up for no apparent reason), and the next the ammonia fails to process and nitrite rises.

Would feeder fish be a possible solution, or will the ammonia that they produce be identical to that of the bottled ammonia? I don't want to harm any fish but considering that there is already a lot of bacteria built up, it wouldn't be near as harmful as adding them from the start. Obviously though if their ammonia would be no different than the store-bought, it isn't worth changing methods now.

 

[OldMan47]

I'm afraid that ammonia is ammonia BryceHockey. Using a fish to supply it is much like using a dropper to add it. The only difference that I see is that with a fish you are changing water daily to keep from killing the fish and must test more than just once a day. Another issue with using a feeder is what you do with it when the tank has cycled. I don't regard tossing it in the trash as a very humane option and I don't often stock a tank with feeders.

 

[BryceHockey]

I'm afraid that ammonia is ammonia BryceHockey. Using a fish to supply it is much like using a dropper to add it. The only difference that I see is that with a fish you are changing water daily to keep from killing the fish and must test more than just once a day. Another issue with using a feeder is what you do with it when the tank has cycled. I don't regard tossing it in the trash as a very humane option and I don't often stock a tank with feeders.

Alright, thanks for the info, just wanted to be sure there was no difference in the ammonia (natural vs chemical, etc).

I would never trash them, back before I found this forum and knew about fishless cycling I cycled my tank with feeder fish and it worked very well. Out of 6 only 1 died, though later of course I realize this doesn't mean that it didn't hurt them. We returned them to the fish store when it was ready for the tropical fish and didn't inhumanely kill them or anything of that sort.

I'm just getting frustrated more and more each day, for example the API Master Test Kits are far from cheap. When I shake the ammonia bottles it sounds like they are almost out, so that will mean paying another $30 for a new one soon, unless I find just the ammonia bottles for cheap on Ebay or something.

 

[BryceHockey]

Just did an hour and 45 minute water change (approx. 90%).

Well actually it partly took a while because I was pruning some plants, lol. I'm hoping that maybe this could give the cycle a boost, I got a ton of junk out of the gravel.

 

[waterdrop]

Good, if you're going to do a large water change during the last phase after the nitrite spike is over then getting stuff out of the gravel just makes it all the better.

~~waterdrop~~