46 Gallon Tank In Cycling Stages

[BryceHockey]

Tank: 46 Gallon (US) Bowfront
Temperature: 84 Degrees F
Filter: Marineland C-220 Canister Filter (Filter Foam Pads, Carbon Bags, Boi-filter Balls, Ceramic Rings)
Tap Water: 7.4 pH, No ammonia or nitrites present.
Test Kit: API Master Test Kit
Notes: The tank has live plants in it, as we added them when the cycle seemed to be processing ammonia in under 24 hours. A mature filter cartridge was also transferred from my 10 gallon tank and put one of the canister filter's compartments.

September 8
-Morning- pH: 6.0, Ammonia: 1.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.0 ppm, Nitrate: 70 ppm (Admittedly an estimate, very hard to distinguish difference between 40 and 80).
-Night- pH: 7.6, Ammonia 0.0 ppm. Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 9
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm.
-Night- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 1.5 ppm (I had a heckuva time trying to figure out which color the reading matched with best. I really can't say with confidence that the Nitrite is 1.5, but I don't think it would be anymore than 3). Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 10
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 4.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 11
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 4.5-5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 12
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 4.5-5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 13
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 1.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 14
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 15
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 16
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 17
-Morning- pH: 7.4, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.45 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 18
-Morning- pH: 7.2, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.4 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 19
-Morning- pH: 7.9, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 20
-Morning- pH: 7.9, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15-.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 21
-Morning- pH: 7.9, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.45 ppm, Nitrate: 80 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 22
-Morning- pH: 7.4, Ammonia: 0.4 ppm, Nitrite: 0.4 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Afternoon- 40% Water Change.
-Night- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.0 ppm. Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 23
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 1.0 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 24
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.15 ppm, Nitrite: 0.6 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 25
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.15 ppm, Nitrite: 0.3 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 26
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 27
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 28
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda. (The cycle was going great with a higher pH.)
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 29
-Morning- pH: 7.9, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.1 - .15 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

September 30
-Morning- pH: 7.9, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 1
-Morning- pH: 7.7, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.3 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 2
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.25 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 3
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 4
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 5
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 1.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 6
-Morning- pH: 7.4, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.1 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 7
-Morning- pH: 7.2, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 8
-Morning- pH: 7.7, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 9
-Morning- pH: 7.7, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 10
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 11
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 12
-Morning- pH: 7.4, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.4 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 13
-Morning- pH: 7.0, Ammonia: 0.7 ppm, Nitrite: 0.5 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 14
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.6 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 15
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.
Missed adding ammonia at night.

October 16
-Morning- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.
-Night- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.15 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.

October 17
Purposely missed adding ammonia at morning.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 18
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.85 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 19
-Morning- pH: 7.3, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 20
-Morning- pH: 7.2, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 21
-Morning- pH: 7.2, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.9 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 22
-Morning- pH: 6.7, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.8 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 23
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 1.2 ppm, Nitrite: 0.4 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 24
-Morning- pH: 7.4, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.7 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 25
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 26
-Morning- Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.5 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 27
-Morning- pH: 6.7, Ammonia: 1.4 ppm, Nitrite: 0.8 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 28
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.8 ppm.
90% Water Change.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 29
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 30
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

October 31
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

November 1
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.1 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm. (Note: Recorded after 14 hours.)
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

November 2
-Morning- pH: 7.1, Ammonia: 0.25 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm. Added 1 tbsp. of baking soda.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

November 3
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

November 4
-Morning- pH: 7.5, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.2 ppm.
-Night- Added 4 ppm of Ammonia.

November 5
-Morning- pH: 7.6, Ammonia: 0.0 ppm, Nitrite: 0.15 ppm.

Below is the original post.

This can be moved to the beginner section if needed but this about my second tank, I need some advice on what could be the problem. I am using the API Master Test Kit.

Tank Size: 46 Gallons
Began Fishless Cycling On: Approx. July 28
Ammonia: Off the chart, a very dark blueish green, my guess is that it is about 10.0 ppm.
Nitrite: 0.0 ppm.
Nitrate: 80 ppm.

I've been going by the fishless cycling guide that's on here, exactly as it said for the add and wait method. I put a used filter cartridge from my 10 gallon tank in there and it seemed to speed things up very quickly. After about 2 weeks, the ammonia was dropping to 0 in less than 24 hours, and it did this for 5 straight days. I left for vacation for 8 days and had a friend that keeps fish add 7.0 mL of ammonia per day. Since it was processing the ammonia daily, it should have continued to do this, right? Apparently something with the bacteria didn't go quite right because upon returning I found the level to be far too high. I just tested again this morning (18 hours approx. after he last added the ammonia) and it was still too high. The Nitrate is probably high because of the snails that latched onto the driftwood.

So my question is, if it's simply a matter of the ammonia not being processed as well while I was gone, what made this happen? Like I said, based on the readings it would have seemed that the tank was going to be finished cycling well before I returned. I was ready to come back and add in the first group of fish and begin planting.

Second question, even if the ammonia is this high, would it be perfectly safe to still add in plants and at least begin that process? Or will the ammonia hurt them?

I am at a loss here, right now my plan is to wait until the ammonia drops down and add 6.2 mL of ammonia. Would a water change be a good idea? The thought that maybe the snail poo drove the readings up crossed my mind but I highly doubt that a bunch of tiny snails would put 10+ ppm of ammonia into the tank.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[OldMan47]

A water change of at least 50% is in order. You need to get the ammonia level down to 5 ppm or less. You only add ammonia when the readings drop to zero and only do that once a day. I would wait until the ammonia is back down below 5 ppm before adding any plants.

 

[BryceHockey]

Thanks for the quick response, I'll do the water change today and hope that this can get back on track. The cycling was going so well before I left, and I figured it was going to process all of the ammonia daily since it had for 5 straight days. I should have had my friend test the water each day but it felt like a lot to ask.

This is disappointing as I really thought that the tank was nearly cycled when I left but oh well.

 

[BryceHockey]

I did the 50% water change yesterday afternoon. Just tested for ammonia this morning and it looks to be around 9 or 10 ppm. I am completely baffled.

Should I do another 50% water change today, or just wait it out?

 

[ellena]

If your friend was adding 7ml a day (I presume that's about 5ppm?) and none of it was getting processed (for whatever reason-who knows with those bacteria?!) it could easily have built up to way off the chart. I'd do 100% change and start over with the ammonia. A pH crash may have been what caused it?

 

[BryceHockey]

Yep the amount of ammonia being added was supposed to bring the ammonia between 4 and 5 ppm (used the ammonia calculator on this site). Unfortunately it does seem like the bacteria slowed down in processing it.

I did an 80% water change and got the ammonia down to between 2 to 3 ppm. Finally I can get on with the routine and add and wait. Thanks for the advice ellena.

 

[BryceHockey]

Just an update, I got the cycling back on track. I have bought and added the live plants as the ammonia is being cycled in 24 hours (with nitrite also going to 0), but not quite at the 12 hour mark yet. There's usually around .50 ppm of ammonia at 12 hours.

I got to wondering, does ammonia need added more often than 24 hours? For example, if the bacteria were processing the ammonia in 15 hours, would that 9 hours without ammonia hurt the bacteria? The guide on these forums said nothing about adding it more often than 24 hours (at least from what I read) but better safe than sorry.

 

[OldMan47]

We have found that once a day adding ammonia is often enough to get good progress on the cycle. Any more than that is just overkill. When you consider that a fairly heavy fish load will only produce the equivalent of maybe 2 ppm daily, 5 is more than enough to establish a robust bacteria colony.

 

[BryceHockey]

We have found that once a day adding ammonia is often enough to get good progress on the cycle. Any more than that is just overkill. When you consider that a fairly heavy fish load will only produce the equivalent of maybe 2 ppm daily, 5 is more than enough to establish a robust bacteria colony.

Excellent, thanks!

My tank's cycling is still a little slow going, it had been processing ammonia in 24 hours but this past day it was between .5 to 1 ppm of Ammonia after 24 hours. It's frustrating but I'm trying to stay patient.

For anyone who is wondering, the planned stocking is:

3 Bolivian Rams (1 male and 2 females if we can tell the difference in the store)
12 Harlequin Rasboras
6 Julii Corydoras
1 Powder Blue Dwarf Gourami
1 Gold Apple Snail

Edit: Wow, I just noticed that I put this in the original post:

Began Fishless Cycling On: Approx. August 28

I definitely meant in July, lol. The cycle has been going for over 4 weeks now. Sorry if that made things unclear.

 

[BryceHockey]

Sigh...

It has now been about 40 days or so of cycling. Obviously I had the problem when I went on vacation, so it would take about a week longer than it should have. This morning I checked the ammonia level and it's around 1.5 ppm! Considering that it was processing in less than 24 hours for a few straight days at one point, and has now almost stalled in processing the ammonia, I'm completely baffled and frustrated. No changes have been made other than when I added the plants, but even that seemed to speed up the processing at first. But now it has been over 48 hours and the ammonia isn't going down.

Last night I added my used filter cartridge from my 10 gallon tank to hopefully speed things up. I did this when I first began the tank cycling and thought it helped, but this time I put this cartridge inside one of the filter compartments to hopefully put some mature bacteria directly in there.

The thought of using feeder fish again crossed my mind, as I did for my 10 gallon (I didn't know about fishless cycling at the time so we went that route). I just hate to harm any fish, even if they are feeders. However it worked and the 10 gallon seemed to cycle very well, I still have fish in there from the original group. Should I go this route or stick it out with fishless cycling? I've made it this far so I hate to just go to the feeder fish now, but why would the ammonia stall for this long when it had been processing so effectively? I mean it was very very close to 12 hours at one point.

 

[BryceHockey]

I have just tested, with it having been over 3 days since ammonia had hit 0 ppm and 6 mL was added. The ammonia was about the same as yesterday, possibly a little lower (still at or above 1.0 ppm). The nitrite was 0.0 ppm, but I'm assuming that this is because no ammonia is being processed!

This is really becoming discouraging quickly. I am out of ideas for what suddenly has made the bacteria colony stop working or severely slow down. It has had days when it processed the same amount of ammonia in under 24 hours, so why would it halt in growth?

If somebody could please advise, I would really appreciate it. I'm going to do a 75% or more water change today but surely there's something else that I'm missing as a possible solution or reason for this problem.

 

[waterdrop]

Just looked at this thread for the first time and several things seem confusing about it. It sounds as if the ammonia level may have been very high (10 or off the charts) for an extended period (a week or more) either at the beginning or at some point after the fishless cycle had been going for a while. Then there is a post above on Aug 31 that seems to say that the ammonia level was finally straightened out via a large water change that took the ammonia back down to 2 or 3ppm at that point.
And now the fishless cycling process seems stalled.

I guess the first thing that's confusing is that there's no data. Normally our fishless cyclers post their daily data (actually result numbers) for ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH and nitrate(NO3) in a line preceeded by "Day X" of fishless cycling in the first post of their thread. Its also helpful to have tap water stats, filter type, media layers and other baseline info in that first post.

Anyway, a couple of speculations come to mind. Since there are no pH readings, we don't whether the most common problem, a pH "crash", might have happened. This is where pH is gradually brought lower and lower by the nitric acid production from the fishless cyclng process. When the tank environment reaches 6.2 or lower, the growth process of the nitrifying bacteria effectively halts and little or no movement is seen in the overall process. Let us know your current pH. Also, we assume your temp is at 29C/84F?

Another speculation is that the wrong ammonia oxidizing bacteria species may have taken hold due to your unfortunate accident with the ammonia level. Its important to avoid having the ppm concentration in a fishless cycling tank reach 8ppm or higher because it encourages the wrong species of bacteria. In your case this may have actually taken place. It can be a bit bad because the scenerio is that they attach and take up the available space on the biomedia but then die when the ppm level drops back down to accepted levels (beginning below about 6ppm) After they die their biofilms are still attached and blocking the correct species (Nitrosomonas spp.) from being able to build up. It takes some extra time for these wrong biofilms to break down and free up the biomedia surface area for the correct bacteria. Normally this is rarely a problem because people see their incorrect ammonia concentration and correct it within a day or so, but if you had this go on for a week it may have been worse.

Also, if this was only corrected on Aug 31 then I would only deem the fishless cycling process as being a week old or so because of course it would only at that point be starting with the correct conditions. Now, I would take all this with a grain of salt as its pretty speculative. Once the members check and get your other parameters confirmed as going ok, you may find that things will take off and move fast!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BryceHockey]

Hey waterdrop, thanks for the nice response. I apologize for the lack of data, I didn't think to start a thread at the beginning of the cycling and everything was going well up until I had to leave for a week (and when I came back, I found the high ammonia reading and rushed to post and get that down). I'm really wishing that I had just had my friend test the water.

Anyways, I have to get some work done and then I will post all of my water stats (for both the tank and tap water), filter information, and the like. Your last bit about the cycling almost starting over is helpful, I almost think this may be the case then. Again, thanks for the reply!

 

[BryceHockey]

Anyway, a couple of speculations come to mind. Since there are no pH readings, we don't whether the most common problem, a pH "crash", might have happened. This is where pH is gradually brought lower and lower by the nitric acid production from the fishless cyclng process. When the tank environment reaches 6.2 or lower, the growth process of the nitrifying bacteria effectively halts and little or no movement is seen in the overall process. Let us know your current pH. Also, we assume your temp is at 29C/84F?

I believe that we have identified the problem. I have now updated my original post with tank details, as well as the September 8 test results. The pH shows as 6.0, and since the tap water is 7.4, obviously there must have been a pH crash (there is driftwood in there but I know this didn't lower the pH by that much. Very good speculation.

So I realize that I don't have much data for people to view yet. 6 mL of ammonia were added on Friday, since the ammonia was down to 0.0. With the pH being down to 6.0, what do I need to do to raise it?

 

[BryceHockey]

I just wanted to give a big thank you to Snowflake, I did some searching for a solution to the pH crash and her thread was almost an identical situation to mine in terms of the pH levels and such. I sent a pm and she helped give some guidance. Right now my plan is to do a large water change, add baking soda, and then get the ammonia to 5 ppm and get this rolling back on track.