40g breeder plans...

[connorlindeman]

Yes you are right.
I definitely am careful about things like this BUT in this video you can see that they all seem to be getting along fine, even while being over stocked

Bettas in a community tank may seem to get along alright for a bit as well.

 

[Rocky998]

Bettas in a community tank may seem to get along alright for a bit as well.

Those are bettas.
We're talking about multiple species that are known to be peaceful in community setups.

 

[connorlindeman]

Those are bettas.
We're talking about multiple species that are known to be peaceful in community setups.

It was an example.

 

[Rocky998]

Yes I know...

 

[Byron]

The fish in that tank are not getting along, and it is not an example of appropriate stocking.

First, what makes you think the tank is "overstocked?" To most, and I am assuming to you, "overstocked" means too many fish. There is no list of the fish, and it is impossible to tell from the video. I agree the tank is inappropriately stocked, without question. The Pearl Gourami are highly stressed. They only appear for a few seconds, but their behaviour in those few seconds is certainly not normal and is a sign of stress. I suspect it is the gudgeons, from what we can see of the fish species.

Forget any videos on YouTube unless they are posted by a knowledgeable hobbyist, one you know is knowledgeable. The one here is not, clearly. It takes years of observing fish, and thoroughly researching their requirements, to be able to quickly spot the trouble that is evident in this tank.

 

[Rocky998]

The fish in that tank are not getting along, and it is not an example of appropriate stocking.

First, what makes you think the tank is "overstocked?" To most, and I am assuming to you, "overstocked" means too many fish. There is no list of the fish, and it is impossible to tell from the video. I agree the tank is inappropriately stocked, without question. The Pearl Gourami are highly stressed. They only appear for a few seconds, but their behaviour in those few seconds is certainly not normal and is a sign of stress. I suspect it is the gudgeons, from what we can see of the fish species.

Forget any videos on YouTube unless they are posted by a knowledgeable hobbyist, one you know is knowledgeable. The one here is not, clearly. It takes years of observing fish, and thoroughly researching their requirements, to be able to quickly spot the trouble that is evident in this tank.

Yes they were discolored and I could tell stressed BUT the tank is too small so that plays a factor.
There is a list of fish if you tap into youtube for it and the description shows a list of all the fish.
Feel bad for them all... Really sad.
But the pearls were not going at the gudgeons and the gudgeons were not fighting with anything.
(The emperors in there are a type of aggressive gudgeon so I payed no attention to them really)

 

[Slaphppy7]

That video is less than two minutes long...it takes MANY hours of observation to assess the behaviors/actions/ well-being of fish in a tank

 

[Rocky998]

That video is less than two minutes long...it takes MANY hours of observation to assess the behaviors/actions/ well-being of fish in a tank

That is very true...
But in my mind it's like this:
"Peacock gudgeons are bottom-mid dwellers... Pearl gouramis are top dwellers. They may interact a bit but not much and also they are both known not to be aggressive species."

 

[Byron]

Yes they were discolored and I could tell stressed BUT the tank is too small so that plays a factor.
There is a list of fish if you tap into youtube for it and the description shows a list of all the fish.
Feel bad for them all... Really sad.
Butthe pearls were not going at the gudgeons and the gudgeons were not fighting with anything.
(The emperors in there are a type of aggressive gudgeon so I payed no attention to them really)

With respect, you do not have the experience to see what is really going on in this tank. The Pearls show clear signs of being under stress from another fish, it has nothing really to do with the size of the tank but with the wrong fish in it. Given the species listed, it may well be the gudgeons.

I missed the "show more" previously, thanks, now I've seen the list. There is no way the fish species are suited to the same aquarium for several of the species listed. You/we cannot take anything away from this video, except the owner does not have any knowledge about what he is doing.

 

[Byron]

That is very true...
But in my mind it's like this:
"Peacock gudgeons are bottom-mid dwellers... Pearl gouramis are top dwellers. They may interact a bit but not much and also they are both known not to be aggressive species."

That is not the whole issue. What allomones are the gudgeons releasing? And the gourami for that matter? They are a territorial fish, and such fish release allomones to "warn off" other species..."this is my territory buster!" Something is clearly scaring the pearls significantly. The gudgeons are territorial, the gourami are territorial... bad all round.

 

[Rocky998]

That is not the whole issue. What allomones are the gudgeons releasing? And the gourami for that matter? They are a territorial fish, and such fish release allomones to "warn off" other species..."this is my territory buster!" Something is clearly scaring the pearls significantly. The gudgeons are territorial, the gourami are territorial... bad all round.

So are you saying that these two species are not community fish whatsoever? If that is so, why do so many people keep them with other fish?

 

[Byron]

So are you saying that these two species are not community fish whatsoever? If that is so, why do so many people keep them with other fish?

They are not fish suited to be in the same tank together. It has nothing to do with being community fish, it has to do with the correct environment. A group of five Pearl Gourami in an aquarium with a group of 12-15 Trigonostigma espei [since you mention this rasbora somewhere], no problem. Corydoras on the substrate with these, no problem.

I said earlier that I have no direct experience with gudgeons, so I have been careful throughout to simply offer caution. From what I have seen of that video I am more inclined to consider the gudgeons more of a threat now, but one cannot learn much of value from a video that is so "wrong" in the first place, that fish are not going to be "normal."

 

[Rocky998]

They are not fish suited to be in the same tank together. It has nothing to do with being community fish, it has to do with the correct environment. A group of five Pearl Gourami in an aquarium with a group of 12-15 Trigonostigma espei [since you mention this rasbora somewhere], no problem. Corydoras on the substrate with these, no problem.

I said earlier that I have no direct experience with gudgeons, so I have been careful throughout to simply offer caution. From what I have seen of that video I am more inclined to consider the gudgeons more of a threat now, but one cannot learn much of value from a video that is so "wrong" in the first place, that fish are not going to be "normal."

Ahhh I see ok...
Kinda like how some cichlids can be kept with other fish but put another cichlid in and ww3 breaks out...

Do you think that there is another larger top dwelling fish I can do that won't cause much territorial issues?
I thought fish thought of territory as their sections. You know sense one fish is top and the other bottom they wouldn't mind much...
Now I see that's not always the case.
I kinda want a fish that will be larger and you can see it from a bit away. People can walk in and go: "Ooo what's that?"

Maybe an Oscar. Their extremely peaceful. Gentle giants. (joking, completely joking)

 

[Byron]

My first thought is...the gudgeons should/will be the "centrepiece" here, accept that and build around it. If I had this species, I certainly would not want to have it lessened or "dwarfed" by a competing upper fish. Thinking of the visual effect here, not any fish-related issues. One does not keep discus in a tank and then put in another fish that steals the spotlight, so to speak. This is counter-productive.

I still feel I do not have sufficient knowledge of the gudgeons to safely suggest additional fish. They clearly have a personality, and that must be kept in mind when considering other tankmates.

 

[Rocky998]

My first thought is...the gudgeons should/will be the "centrepiece" here, accept that and build around it. If I had this species, I certainly would not want to have it lessened or "dwarfed" by a competing upper fish. Thinking of the visual effect here, not any fish-related issues. One does not keep discus in a tank and then put in another fish that steals the spotlight, so to speak. This is counter-productive.

I still feel I do not have sufficient knowledge of the gudgeons to safely suggest additional fish. They clearly have a personality, and that must be kept in mind when considering other tankmates.

Oh yes, they have a personality indeed!
Thank you for all your help!
So new plan!

5x Peacock Gudgeons (Tateurndina ocellicauda)
15x Sterbai Cory (Corydoras Sterbai)
(Numbers will vary) 20x (some sort of top-mid dwelling schooling fish)