3 Gallon Quarantine?

[Frank77]

I have acquired a small 3g tank, I was hoping to turn into a quarantine tank. I am not ready to add fish yet, this is just a general question.
 
It's a tall-ish cylinder, it has a weird filtration system, there is an "X" bar with holes that sits on the bottom, with a riser tube up the center of the tank, in which there goes a small air stone. It works by creating the "up-flow" in the tube, using the gravel as a filter.
 
I was told I could cycle it quickly by adding water from my established tank, and wringing out my filter sponge in the water.
 
My main concern is the stunting of growth.
 
So....would this be suitable to maybe hold some small fish for a week or two? How long do you guys quarantine your new fish?
 
Also....when I get around to buying plants, how do I ensure I they don't infect my tank, should I quarantine them as well?

 

[Frank77]

Seriously?
 
No one can answer? Was it too stupid of a question? lol.
 
If it's too small for a quarantine, I may just put a beta in it.

 

[Byron]

I personally would have at least a 10g for a QT for new fish (which is what I assume you are talking about, as opposed to a QT to treat a sick fish) but a 20g tall (normal 20g) would be better.  Rather depends upon how many fish you might acquire at once, and how large they might be.  I use a 20g, with live plants (floating).  Mine is permanently running so I never need to prepare it if I acquire fish.
 
I would quarantine for at least 4 weeks, and sometimes much longer.  Even this is too short for some internal protozoan to manifest themselves, but generally if the fish are healthy and not stressed in your main tank, they are normally able to deal with many such things.  It is when fish are not maintained properly--by which I mean the correct number, sufficient volume, proper environment (water params, decor), suitable tankmates--that they are under stress and thus succumb to various pathogens they otherwise can fight off.
 
The other thing about quarantining is that in a smaller space, you can "overfeed" a bit if necessary; some fish, especially wild caught, may be slow to start eating prepared foods, and the time in the QT can get over this hurdle much easier than in the display tank with competition and probable shyness.
 
As for plants, if they come from fish-less tanks, I would not do any QT.  If they come from tanks with fish that are turning over, it would be safer to QT them for a week to two weeks.  By fish turning over, I mean tanks carrying fish that are being sold and thus fish are coming in to the tank and being netted out.  A plant tank of plants only but with a couple otos, which I often see locally, is not the same, as the otos have probably been in there for some time and you can easily see their condition.
 
Byron.

 

[Frank77]

Yes I meant for new fish.
 
Honestly, buying LSF fish terrifies me, with all the horror stories, and how easy it seems to be to bring home nasty illnesses. I am doing my best to make contact with some local breeders, but so far the ones I've found are usually for larger species.
 
OK, I'll save up for a ten gallon. Walmart has some inexpensive plastic ones. The only addition I am looking is to add maybe 5-6 neon tetras.
 
My concern with the plants was due to the only two LFS near by seem to keep all their plants in the same tanks as fish.
 
Thanks for the info!
 
Just FYI, my current setup is a 20 gallon with an Aqua Clear 50, heater, 5 male guppies, 2 Long Fin Albino Plecos, and one shrimp. All acquired from a friend who was breeding, but had to give up the hobby due to moving far away.

 

[jag51186]

Just to let you know, Petsmart/Petco often do sales on plain tanks where they charge 1$ per gallon. So, you could get a ten gallon for ten bucks...and in all honesty you could probably find a ten gallon on craigslist for super cheap...just clean it very well.

 

[Frank77]

I'll keep an eye out for those specials, and see what I can find for a private sale.
 
Thanks!

 

[Byron]

Yes I meant for new fish.
 
Honestly, buying LSF fish terrifies me, with all the horror stories, and how easy it seems to be to bring home nasty illnesses. I am doing my best to make contact with some local breeders, but so far the ones I've found are usually for larger species.
 
OK, I'll save up for a ten gallon. Walmart has some inexpensive plastic ones. The only addition I am looking is to add maybe 5-6 neon tetras.
 
My concern with the plants was due to the only two LFS near by seem to keep all their plants in the same tanks as fish.
 
Thanks for the info!
 
Just FYI, my current setup is a 20 gallon with an Aqua Clear 50, heater, 5 male guppies, 2 Long Fin Albino Plecos, and one shrimp. All acquired from a friend who was breeding, but had to give up the hobby due to moving far away.

 
A 10g will work for you as a QT.  As you are in Canada, though I can't remember where, I would just mention that the two chain stores in Vancouver area, PetSmart and Petland, are stores from which I will never again buy fish.  I have four times introduced internal protozoan (3) with Petland fish, and an external columnaris-like bacterial issue (1) with fish from PetSmart.  The latter i quarantined for three weeks and with no external signs of anything, and normal behaviours, I moved them over but within a week they had whatever it was and it spread within a couple days.  It just isn't worth it.
 
I also have two independent stores, and an importer of fish direct from South America or SE Asia.  Interestingly, I have never had problems with any of the fish from these places.  It is just too much of a coincidence that internal protozoan diseases and bacterial issues occur with fish from the chain stores. 

 

[Frank77]

I am in Halifax Nova Scotia. I have yet to find an independent store here, and there doesn't seem to be many local breeders. I am in no rush anyhoo.
 
How do the illnesses/parasites get into fish supplies that say they are captive bred? Is it because the big stores use the central filtering system, and it comes from the wild caught breeds?

 

[Byron]

How do the illnesses/parasites get into fish supplies that say they are captive bred? Is it because the big stores use the central filtering system, and it comes from the wild caught breeds?

 
I have been active in this hobby for about 20+ years, with a break in there when I moved and was unable to set up tanks for a spell.  I can honestly say that during the last 15 of these, I only once had disease arrive with wild-caught fish, and in that case it was gill flukes in some Corydoras but this was fairly easy to deal with.  I have primarily wild-caught fish, acquired direct from the importer or an independent store that uses direct exporters in SA, and never have I had any issues introduced with these fish, aside from the afore-mentioned corys.  All my serious problems (internal protozoan, parasite, bacterial) have been introduced in fish from commercial suppliers.
 
There are I think two things here.  First is the commercial fish farms that supply chain stores, or perhaps the chain stores themselves, or both.  Disease that gets in to one of these facilities will usually spread throughout.  Some of these issues, such as internal protozoan, can be un-noticed externally for weeks, even months.  The second thing is that stores with circulating filter systems have a real disadvantage; any disease in one tank is rapidly spread throughout the entire bank of tanks.
 
It may be that wild fish are stronger, with better immune systems.  We do know these days that fish like guppies, neon tetra, etc that have been commercially raised for many decades now are definitely much weaker.  Some suggest the generations of inbreeding is responsible, and this is probably true; but I suspect there is more to it.
 
Fish in the wild have a close relationship with pathogens and bacteria, and generally are able to live to reproduce in spite of these.  If this were not so, the species would have died out long ago.  The problems we see in the commercially-raised hobby fish just do not occur in the wild, or if they do, it is no where close to the same level.
 
This is why I will only acquire wild-caught fish, either directly from an importer dealing with an exporter in the origin country, or from a store that uses wild farms in SA or SE Asia where the fish are raised outdoors naturally, and not commercial suppliers like those that do the chain stores.  I will readily accept that this in itself is no guarantee, but my experiences over 15-20 years are so definite that there has to be a connection.
 
Byron.

 

[Frank77]

That was a good read, thanks Byron.
 
Who would have thought keeping fish was so complicated....when trying to do it right, that is.

 

[OldMan47]

An undergravel filter like you described is possibly the best kind once you get it cycled. A big step forward to cycling one would be to clean an existing filter in that tank and then follow the fishless cycling method. That part of your advice is right on target.
On the other hand I cannot recommend any substrate in a Q tank. When you experience any kind of disease in a Q tank you need to treat it and then let your fish show that they are over the disease before moving them into the main tank. After that you need to thoroughly clean that Q tank before you use it again. Any substrate makes that much more difficult to do effectively.

 

[Byron]

An undergravel filter like you described is possibly the best kind once you get it cycled. A big step forward to cycling one would be to clean an existing filter in that tank and then follow the fishless cycling method. That part of your advice is right on target.
On the other hand I cannot recommend any substrate in a Q tank. When you experience any kind of disease in a Q tank you need to treat it and then let your fish show that they are over the disease before moving them into the main tank. After that you need to thoroughly clean that Q tank before you use it again. Any substrate makes that much more difficult to do effectively.

 
This is a valid point, but using something like play sand means it can be chucked out should treatment for a disease be necessary.  My plants in this tank are culls from the other tanks, so no loss losing these either.  The few cents for the playsand substrate seems nothing when compared to the benefits I outlined earlier.  B.

 

[OldMan47]

A sub-gravel filter relies on building the bacteria up in the substrate. It cannot be used with fine sand because that will not allow the free water flow that you need in your cycled substrate. If you toss that substrate you get to start your cycle on the tank from scratch. If I wanted plants in a Q tank I would pot a couple of plants so that I could easily remove them when it was time to clean out the tank.

 

[Byron]

A sub-gravel filter relies on building the bacteria up in the substrate. It cannot be used with fine sand because that will not allow the free water flow that you need in your cycled substrate. If you toss that substrate you get to start your cycle on the tank from scratch. If I wanted plants in a Q tank I would pot a couple of plants so that I could easily remove them when it was time to clean out the tank.

 
We may be on different channels.  I was not suggesting an undergravel filter, but merely having a shallow substrate as opposed to a bare bottom tank.  I see this as a significant benefit.  If treatment with medications is required, the substrate can be easily tossed out.  Chances are the filter would get changed too, for the same reasons, so cycling is not part of the issue.  B.