RTS Died suddenly

[Jinx13]

Tank size: 125l officially but I counted 90ltr of water.
pH: 7.2 used to be 8.6 until co2 added
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10
tank temp: 72°F

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): no symptoms colour didn't fade RTS had moved from his usual hiding spot

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 20% every few days

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: eSHa Minaroll vitamins

Tank inhabitants: 3 x neon tetras (was 6 but lost 3 months ago when 1st introduced.)
1 x BN plec (has been happy but noticing some brown algae build up recently and been spending more time in his cave)
3 x Tiger barbs (was 10 3 died 4 in quarantine after being in near death state nipped fins etc)

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): CO2 setup

Exposure to chemicals: Household bleach as I bleached the empty tank recently but washed it all out for a long time

Okay here for the long story. My tank was over stocked and not cycled from not being advised properly in the beginning. I lost some neon tetras that was about September time. Then i had 1 RTS 6 Tiger barbs 6 neon tetras and 1 plec.

1 Tiger barb died and 3 neon tetras due to ammonia spike I'm guessing as didn't have water test kit then.

I bought 3 Green Tiger barbs and I was given 2 adult green Tiger barbs which made 10 in total. One adult barb died that was the start of the issues as since then they have been dropping unexpectedly fast.

I saved 1 adult green barb currently in quarantine 1 Green barb and 2 Tiger barbs now these showed signs of injury like they had been attacking each other nipped fins graze on side of one so I remember one was swimming upside down 1 was swimming erratically jumping out the water and hitting the hood.

So now the ones that are left looked fine the RTS seemed okay then yesterday he was hanging near the filter and this morning no issues just hanging like he does and this afternoon I seen him dead in the corner of the tank he's my favourite.

I need to try figure out any water issues as I've had 3 barbs and 1 Red tailed shark die and 4 barbs go crazy all in a fortnight.

Now I will say that I added co2 to my system as my plants we're dying. And at first the co2 detector said lots of co2 and all the fish we're gasping. I added more aeration via pump and stones and did the co2 gradually. My checker is saying it's always low but that's fine for now.

I also bleached my tank and washed the sand.

What else can I do to work out what's happening as I don't want to buy any more fish until I know

My lfs said that it could be anything health related not necessarily my water conditions and said I do water changes to frequent.

Thank you in advance

 

[StevenF]

Now I will say that I added co2 to my system as my plants we're dying. And at first the co2 detector said lots of co2 and all the fish we're gasping. I added more aeration via pump and stones and did the co2 gradually. My checker is saying it's always low but that's fine for now.

It is extremely unlikely that lack of CO2 was the cause of your plants dying. Fish like people release CO2 when the use oxygen. Add to that the CO2 in the air will work its way into the tank through aeration you are currently doing. For now I would discontinue the use of CO2. In my experience when plants don't do well it is because of a lack of nutrients. If I recall correctly there are about 14 nutrients plant need. IF they are not in the water Your plants may not grow or die. Give the control issues you have with it you are probably better off stopping it for now.

When you say checker are you referring to a CO2 drop checker? If so did you make the 4dkh solution or was that purchased?

When you say bleached the tank. How did you go about doing this? It is not clear to me but are you saying that after the last fish died you cleaned and bleached the tank and that it is now empty?

I see you are using eSHa Minaroll vitamins. I am not failure with this product could you provide an ingredients list and summarize the dosage instructions? I cannot find this information on the web about it. I suspect this was not a good product since your plants were not doing well.

Please measure your tape water PH and nitrogen parameters. We need to make sure the water you added to the tank is safe. Are you using any type of water conditioner before adding tap water?

 

[Jinx13]

Thanks for the reply. Okay to clear up some confusion I caused.

Here is a link for Minaroll http://www.eshalabs.eu/europe/products/esha-minaroll.html
It's vitamins for the fishes ill have to try find the leaflet for the ingredients.

Yes I mean a drop checker I ordered one which came with a solution but I sent it back as I didn't trust it. When the next one came it came pre mixed with 4dkh solution from a trusted seller.

Looking at my logs I bleached my tank 13 days ago since then I have had 2 barbs die and my much loved RTS also since then I have had 4 barbs act strange and added to quarantine with various cuts fins missing etc etc.

I use a api root tab once a month and also api leaf zone once a week.

I was advised to use co2 because I was apparently overstocked used 2 airstones and high temp so co2 lacked because of all these things.

When I do a water change I use a 10ltr bucket and do either 1,2 or 3 buckets. I add 5ml tetra aquasafe to every bucket and mix before I put the water in the tank which is done gradually via a syphon.

I will post tap water parameters later but I have checked once before and they were okay also consistent good readings would probably suggest that it's good as well

Again thanks for your help so far

 

[StevenF]

Looking at my logs I bleached my tank 13 days ago since then I have had 2 barbs die and my much loved RTS also since then I have had 4 barbs act strange and added to quarantine with various cuts fins missing etc etc.

Never ever use bleach on an aquarium with live fish and plants! The chlorine in it will kill the bacteria that feed on ammonia and nitrite. IT will also kill plants and fish. That means the tank will have to start over with ammonia to restart the tank cycle which typically takes weeks. Even if you rinsed out the tank very well any residual chlorine can kill fish. Also today most bleaches contain additives that may also be toxic to fish.

I think it is best to start all over. probably with new substrate and decorations. In the new tank use Sachem Flourish root tabs along with Sachem Flourish comprehensive. also follow these instructions before buying fish to properly cycle the tank:
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

Once the tank is restarted cycle water like you did before but I would recommend upping the water change to 40%. Also before buying fish request advice here on what mix of fish to add. Some fish grow very big and other do best in schools of 6 or more fish. Also you tank may have been too small for the number of fish you had. Others are have more knowledge than I do on stocking a tank.

Your second drop checker is probably OK but you don't need CO2 in a painted tank (unless you want very rapid plant growth). I would not use CO2 until you have a lot more experience. Using CO2 often requires more frequent and fertilization and sometimes specialized fertilizers.

 

[StandbySetting]

Given that light drives plant growth whether or not CO2 is required depends on the lighting arrangement. CO2 is perfectly safe when dosed correctly.

When you say you bleached the tank, I'm assuming it was empty - any residual chlorine will have been neutralised by your dechlorinator solution, the only other issue is if there were any surfactants or added perfumes in the bleach, which if any residue remained may cause problems.

Given that your ammonia and nitrite readings are at 0, it's safe to assume you're cycled, or that your plants are utilising any ammonia as a nitrogen source. Did the addition of CO2 improve plant growth at all? If it did I wouldn't use seachem flourish personally, it isn't complete, it contains no N and P which are a requirement in high energy set ups. Dependent on whereabouts in the world you are, tropica plant nutrition plus would be my suggestion if you're in the US, otherwise I'd use Aqua Essentials Neutro plus if you're in the U.K.

What tank do you have and what lighting do you have?

The mineral supplement is unnecessary, stop using it. I'd also stop using the API fertilisers, they're not worth adding.

Tiger barbs are notoriously aggressive, the fewer there are, the more likely it is that a fish lower down in the hierarchy will be picked on, hence damaged fins and injuries, is never keep them in a group less than 12 personally.

I'd also increase the volume of your water changes, 30-50%.

 

[StevenF]

wouldn't use seachem flourish personally, it isn't complete, it contains no N and P which are a requirement in high energy set ups. Dependent on whereabouts in the world you are, tropica plant nutrition plus would be my suggestion if you're in the US, otherwise I'd use Aqua Essentials Neutro plus if you're in the U.K.

Flourish Complete does have nitrogen and phosphorous but not as much as a CO2 system requires. The fish food and overstocking should also provide plenty of this. Flourish works well with out CO2 or typical light levels. however if you want rapid growth which means CO2 or bright lights or both. With CO2 and Bright lightFlourish complete may not be enough. which is why I am not recommending CO2 fright now. Besides an overstocked tank cannot be compensated by CO2 and airstones. It might help keep nitrogen levels under control but it won't resolve crowding and other stocking issues. But that said the stocking issue has been partially resolved by the recent deaths. For someone new aquariums (I believe jJinx is new to aquariums) to i would not recommend CO2.

Although Jinx has not stated he is using API fertilizers, I do agree on not using API. API fertilizer is very incomplete.

Now that I have had time to look at the Minaroll it is not a complete supplement. It is deficient in sulfur and has no chlorine. Sachem Flourish is a more complete product. In fact I have had a surfur deficiency and plants won't grow without it.

i

f there were any surfactants or added perfumes in the bleach, which if any residue remained may cause problems.

Agree but most bleaches today include these items. Also if they are there we have now way of know how long it would take to remove them if it is in fact even possible to remove them.

 

[Elwood220]

I had a rts with similar tank mates. He killed everything. Returned him and everything else lived and still kicking 2 years later. Problem with my plants was too much light got a timer now they are flourishing. In my opinion no need for co2


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