Particular order in which to get different livebearer species?

[Yarkii]

This should be on posters and t shirts and every fish forum across the globe.

And for every topic there is, really.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Yarkii]

Yes you could, but that is not a problem. Once these species of bacteria appear, they will increase relative to the level of "food" they have, ammonia and nitrite respectively. If this food should reduce, the respective bacteria do not die off but go into a sort of suspended state or hibernation, to use words that get across the concept. They can remain alive in this state for some time, even months, depending upon other factors. If the food should increase beyond the existing bacteria, they will then begin to multiply.

I don't see any problems with the numbers you posted. I've never done a cycle using artificial ammonia, as I always have fast-growing plants in my new tanks. But it seems you're on the right track.

Thank you Byron. Between you and Matt, I'm now feeling much happier about my cycle. Today (Day 15; 7 days after Dose #2) both ammonia and nitrite hit zero. So I've skipped the snack dose and used a full dose as Dose #3. I'm not going to monitor nitrates anymore (they're near 80ppm today, and I get the impression that they'll keep increasing until a water change. Is that right?

I'll just monitor ammonia & nitrite, giving a full dose if they both hit zero days after the previous full dose, and jumping up and down if they both hit zero within 24 hours of a full dose.

I'll just see how the plants go as time goes on. I stupidly bought a few more today, not realising I'll have to put a full ammonia dose in. Hopefully they'll be okay.

Re the pH, I'll try to buy a digital pH monitor soon (Steven suggested one he uses, and the Melbourne branch of that company is about 15 minutes from my home). I'm still getting entirely different results depending on which test I use (fairly similar difference each time), so I'll use the digital reader as the decider.

I've always felt that not knowing why/how means one can be tempted to ignore the issue.

So true! If someone provides an unsupported opinion, I'll file it aside under "must find the time to look into that". Of course no-one ever has time to look into everything they're interested in, so the 'advice' just dangles as a forgotten frustration until the issue comes up again.

A fish aquarium is probably the most complex hobby there is, because we are dealing with a number of natural processes within a very confined--and artificial--space, and even one little thing can set in motion a huge chain reaction. And the extreme close relationship of a fish to the water can have catastrophic results before we know it.

I'm amazed, and quite a decent amount frightened, of all the interplaying intricacies and relationships and variables that need to work together to keep fish etc alive. I really hope I don't stuff up.



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

On the cycling questions...yes, nitrates will rise but water changes will bring them down.

You mention live plants...I would never add pure ammonia if you have live plants present. It can be done, but there is always the danger you can kill the plants. Ammonia after all is poisonous to all life forms if the level is high enough for the species.

Live plants need nitrogen as a macro-nutrient, and most aquarium plants prefer nitrogen in the form of ammonium. Ammonia in acidic water (pH below 7) will convert to ammonium, but in basic water (pH above 7) it will remain more as ammonia. Ammonia is toxic, ammonium is not, to fish. Bacteria will take up either as "ammonia." So will plants. In basic water, the plants take up the ammonia and convert some of it to ammonium. In acideic water they don't need to do this, obviously. They can also use ammonia to bind with proteins, we don't need to go into that. The main thing is that ammonia/ammonium is their preferred source for nitrogen.

And plants can take up a fair amount, depending upon the plant species, their numbers, and the level of ammonia. Floating plants, being fast growing, are often called "ammonia sinks" because they can use a lot of the ammonia, most produced by fish if the aquarium is balanced.

I would stop adding ammonia, get the plants growing, making sure you have some fast growing species (floating are best for this, but most stem plants are fast-growing). Do water changes to get ammonia and nitrite to zero, and nitrates very low (zero to 20 ppm is the accepted "safe" range for most fish, but the lower the better always). Then, I would add fish. Some fish species are better than others, not because of "cycling" but an established tank is different from a new tank biologically. We can discuss species to add if you like; I'd want to know all the species you intend.

You will have nitrifying bacteria established now, and this will not change. But the plants, if fast-growing and sufficient numbers, will out-compete the bacteria for ammonia. You just don't want to overdo the ammonia and risk harming the plants.

Byron.

 

[Yarkii]

Oh. I have a few questions (sorry), as I'm not sure I completely understand, so want to try to clarify things.

You mention live plants...I would never add pure ammonia if you have live plants present. It can be done, but there is always the danger you can kill the plants. Ammonia after all is poisonous to all life forms if the level is high enough for the species.

Live plants need nitrogen as a macro-nutrient, and most aquarium plants prefer nitrogen in the form of ammonium. Ammonia in acidic water (pH below 7) will convert to ammonium, but in basic water (pH above 7) it will remain more as ammonia. Ammonia is toxic, ammonium is not, to fish. Bacteria will take up either as "ammonia." So will plants. In basic water, the plants take up the ammonia and convert some of it to ammonium. In acideic water they don't need to do this, obviously. They can also use ammonia to bind with proteins, we don't need to go into that. The main thing is that ammonia/ammonium is their preferred source for nitrogen.

I have quite a few plants in the tank. Does this mean that, potentially, it's the plants that have been converting the ammonia to nitrite, rather than bacteria doing the job? Does this also mean that potentially I haven't developed a colony of bacteria at all (to convert ammonia to nitrite)?

Do plants also convert nitrite to nitrate?

Is this absoultely detrimental to the plants, or is it a matter of the relative level of ammonia? Is a little bit of ammonia good for them, but strictly to a limit until it is bad?

I still have most of the bag of ViviD bacteria that I used with ammonia Dose #1. Should I add more of this, to take the pressure off the plants? I also have an unopened bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only refrigerated; should I use that?

I recall one LFS telling me about a product that people use with in-fish cycling, that converts something from a dangerous-to-fish form into a safer form. I didn't take note of the details, as I didn't intend cycling with fish. If it is that it changes it from ammonia to ammonium, would this be of benefit to the plants?

Floating plants, being fast growing, are often called "ammonia sinks" because they can use a lot of the ammonia, most produced by fish if the aquarium is balanced.

The plants I have are:

- 2 types of Anubias on driftwood
- Moss on driftwood
- Elodea
- Hairgrass
- Blue Stricta
- Filigree Milfoil
- Banana Lillies
- something a LFS guy called Bamboo
- a long grass (?name?)

I don't really know which plants are meant to be floating plants, or what is meant by stem plants.

I would stop adding ammonia, get the plants growing, making sure you have some fast growing species (floating are best for this, but most stem plants are fast-growing). Do water changes to get ammonia and nitrite to zero, and nitrates very low (zero to 20 ppm is the accepted "safe" range for most fish, but the lower the better always).

Just to let you know where the cycle and the water parameters are at:

25 hours after Dose 3 (a full dose), ammonia dropped to just over 0 (definitely <.25), and nitrite is around 2.0. Nitrate is around 80, as I haven't done a water change since starting the cycle.

The water is definitely basic. I'm inclined to believe the Seachem alert which has said it's 7.4pH for twelve days straight, but the API test from the master test kit has given readings as high as 8.2. I'm hoping to purchase an electronic pH reader recommended by Steven soon.

Last time I checked (Day 11 - 5 days ago), GH was 161.1 (9 drops) & KH was 107.4 (6 drops).

Then, I would add fish. Some fish species are better than others, not because of "cycling" but an established tank is different from a new tank biologically. We can discuss species to add if you like; I'd want to know all the species you intend.

You will have nitrifying bacteria established now, and this will not change. But the plants, if fast-growing and sufficient numbers, will out-compete the bacteria for ammonia. You just don't want to overdo the ammonia and risk harming the plants.

So, you really think it's best to add fish now, even though the tank isn't fully cycled? It's progressing, but isn't there yet.

Is adding fish a better option than adding some of the remaining bacteria I have? I.e. what is the aim of adding fish now, and could I possibly achieve that purpose some other way?

Re species, I'm planning to get mollies, platys & guppies (EDIT: and swordtails). I have a feeling some rainbow fish might be okay in the same parameters, but I haven't properly investigated it yet. I don't really know what creatures would be okay with livebearers, but I was hoping there will be others.

Thank you again, Byron. You're a life saver (literally, I'm sure).


Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[thrujenseyes]

I have a few questions (sorry)

don't be sorry!
I know how frustrating and confusing cycling is but I just wanted to tell you that you're doing a really great job with it all!
You're understanding far more than I did and you're asking all the right questions!
Just a little pep talk from one who was there not long ago!
Oh and plus...it's helpful for all of us to read all of this!!!

 

[Yarkii]

don't be sorry!
I know how frustrating and confusing cycling is but I just wanted to tell you that you're doing a really great job with it all!
You're understanding far more than I did and you're asking all the right questions!
Just a little pep talk from one who was there not long ago!
Oh and plus...it's helpful for all of us to read all of this!!!

Thank you Jen! That makes me feel like less of a pest! There sure is a LOT to try to understand, and consider, and balance. xxx

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

I have quite a few plants in the tank. Does this mean that, potentially, it's the plants that have been converting the ammonia to nitrite, rather than bacteria doing the job? Does this also mean that potentially I haven't developed a colony of bacteria at all (to convert ammonia to nitrite)?

Do plants also convert nitrite to nitrate?

Is this absoultely detrimental to the plants, or is it a matter of the relative level of ammonia? Is a little bit of ammonia good for them, but strictly to a limit until it is bad?

I still have most of the bag of ViviD bacteria that I used with ammonia Dose #1. Should I add more of this, to take the pressure off the plants? I also have an unopened bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only refrigerated; should I use that?

I recall one LFS telling me about a product that people use with in-fish cycling, that converts something from a dangerous-to-fish form into a safer form. I didn't take note of the details, as I didn't intend cycling with fish. If it is that it changes it from ammonia to ammonium, would this be of benefit to the plants?

Plants take up ammonia/ammonium. The do not produce nitrite or nitrate as a result, so another benefit over bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria will still appear, but it will be in the background; our aquarium tests for ammonia and nitrite should read zero throughout, as the plants are using most of the ammonia. Now, this means a good growth of plants, and faster-growing species are more effective and reliable; I'll come back to this aspect below.

Plants can take up a lot of ammonia, but I caution not to add artificial ammonia just in case. It's like everything else...the less stuff added to the water, the better the chance the natural processes will be unimpeded and nature is still the safest method over chemicals and additives. I don't know what the ViviD is, but if it is a bacterial supplement intended to seed a new tank, it shouldn't harm anything. The Dr. Tim's is a good product, but with live plants I personally would not use it. I believe the instructions are to add some form of ammonia, and it is intended for tanks without live plants.

The plants I have are:

- 2 types of Anubias on driftwood
- Moss on driftwood
- Elodea
- Hairgrass
- Blue Stricta
- Filigree Milfoil
- Banana Lillies
- something a LFS guy called Bamboo
- a long grass (?name?)

I don't really know which plants are meant to be floating plants, or what is meant by stem plants.

Anubias and moss are slow growing plants, so less effective initially. Elodea, milfoil and probably blue stricta (if this is Hygrophila corymbosa "stricta") are stem plants. Stem plants grow as stems that just keep getting longer (until you trim them); cutting sometimes causes side shoots. You stick the cut ends in the substrate and they grow. Most are fast growers. As the upper ends reach the surface, lower leaves may yellow and die off, so we then pull them up and cut off the upper ends and stick them in the substrate.

Banana is a difficult plant to grow, and often dies after a year or so. If it does, forget it. Not every plant will grow in any aquarium, primarily due to differing light and nutrient requirements. Hairgrass is a common name applied to several plants, but all of them are not always easy to grow.

Floating plants (none are mentioned) grow on the surface. They are the fastest growing plants because they get more intense light (being at the surface), and they can assimilate CO2 from the air which for the plant is about four times easier than from water, and obviously there is no limit to the CO2 in the air unlike water. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta), Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) are good floating plants. Duckweed is a floater, but very tiny and often deemed a nuisance; but it is rapid in growth and thus good in new tanks. Salvinia is similar but larger, though still a very small plant.

Some stem plants grow well left floating. Pennywort is my favourite of these. You could float the Elodea and Milfoil.

I cannot remember what your lighting is, but faster growing plants need more intense lighting. This is why true floating plants are best, because they will not have lighting issues (or shouldn't).

So, you really think it's best to add fish now, even though the tank isn't fully cycled? It's progressing, but isn't there yet.

Is adding fish a better option than adding some of the remaining bacteria I have? I.e. what is the aim of adding fish now, and could I possibly achieve that purpose some other way?

Re species, I'm planning to get mollies, platys & guppies. I have a feeling some rainbow fish might be okay in the same parameters, but I haven't properly investigated it yet. I don't really know what creatures would be okay with livebearers, but I was hoping there will be others.

I would wait on adding fish, until the plants are definitely growing. You may find some of them die off, others OK. If you can find some true floating plants, better. I mentioned the bacteria above. I just would not add "ammonia" any longer.

Mollies will need harder water than the tests indicate so far, and platy similar but not as critical. Guppies would be OK as far as the parameters. But let's get the plants issue fixed.

Byron.

 

[Yarkii]

Thank you again Byron!

Plants can take up a lot of ammonia, but I caution not to add artificial ammonia just in case. It's like everything else...the less stuff added to the water, the better the chance the natural processes will be unimpeded and nature is still the safest method over chemicals and additives.

Until your previous post, I had no idea that cycling with plants did not involve adding ammonia. It seemed like it would be a tough time for the plants when you add a dose, but I had no idea that you could do a fishless cycle without adding ammonia.

I still have to empty, clean and cycle the ex-goldfish tank to be my QT. So I guess I either need to cycle it using ammonia but having nothing but the substrate in the tank, or else plant it first.... but then how do I start the cycle (how does ammonia get in there)?

I don't know what the ViviD is, but if it is a bacterial supplement intended to seed a new tank, it shouldn't harm anything. The Dr. Tim's is a good product, but with live plants I personally would not use it. I believe the instructions are to add some form of ammonia, and it is intended for tanks without live plants.

I will have to try to find out more about ViviD, but yes, I believe it is a bacterial supplement intended to start the cycle in a new tank. The (bad) LFS handed it to me as something everyone needs when cycling a tank.

Floating plants (none are mentioned) grow on the surface. They are the fastest growing plants because they get more intense light (being at the surface), and they can assimilate CO2 from the air which for the plant is about four times easier than from water, and obviously there is no limit to the CO2 in the air unlike water. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta), Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes), Amazon Frogbit (Limnobium laevigatum) are good floating plants. Duckweed is a floater, but very tiny and often deemed a nuisance; but it is rapid in growth and thus good in new tanks. Salvinia is similar but larger, though still a very small plant.

Thank you. I will look for these. I know that the LFS where I plan to purchase fish from has water lettuce in bags for sale floating in a tank. I'm pretty sure they also had it growing like a moss in one of their own tanks, so I think I misunderstood its use.

Some stem plants grow well left floating. Pennywort is my favourite of these. You could float the Elodea and Milfoil.

The Elodea is quite long, and although it is planted, the tops are floating horizontally across the tank (I rather like the look). Does this mean they'll be doing the same kind of job as if they were truly floating, unplanted?

I cannot remember what your lighting is, but faster growing plants need more intense lighting. This is why true floating plants are best, because they will not have lighting issues (or shouldn't).

The lighting is 28W LED (2 x White + 1 x RGB + Blue). It seems pretty bright up the top. One of the banana lillies has sent two shoots up to the surface with lily pads. I have to move them away from the lights, as I think the light is damaging them.

I would wait on adding fish, until the plants are definitely growing. You may find some of them die off, others OK. If you can find some true floating plants, better. I mentioned the bacteria above. I just would not add "ammonia" any longer.

Mollies will need harder water than the tests indicate so far, and platy similar but not as critical. Guppies would be OK as far as the parameters. But let's get the plants issue fixed.

The GH & KH have been very slowly rising. I'll keep monitoring both.

When I first filled the tank, I used Flourish. I intended to get root tabs as well, but haven't yet. Will Flourish + root tabs help the plants along?

So, what I need to do now is get the floating plants, do big water changes to get ammonia & nitrite down to zero & nitrate to less than 20, monitor how the plants are going, and if they seem to be doing well, start with guppies. I forgot to mention swordtails.

Thank you Byron!








Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

Cycling" with live plants is easiest method, and safest, but you have to make sure the plants are fast-growing and actually growing, and then go easy with fish. I have never in more than 20 years "cycled" a tank. I have torn down most of my tanks for various reasons (moving, new fish room, different habitat aquascape, changing from fine gravel to sand) so I've had "new tanks" many times, as a new substrate and completely new filter media in these tear-downs equates to a new tank. There will be bacteria on chunks of wood I move around of course, and on the plant leaves. But I rely on the plants, and I always have a good cover of floating plants. I have re-set a 70g and 90g tank in one day, with 100 or so fish. But I won't recommend you do the same, not until you have done this a few times and can read any signs of issues. Point is, that it is easy and safe. I personally would never add ammonia to a fish tank, I just don't go down that road.

Ammonia occurs naturally. As soon as you have living plants, fish, snails, you will have ammonia. Ammonia is released during the breakdown of organics, as well as by fish respiration. I have a 20g QT tank I use to quarantine new fish, so it can sit empty of fish for months, a couple times well over a year. It has plant culls from the other tanks. I cam come home with 30 fish and in they go; there is never any "cycle" issue, because the plants (and again there are floaters) grab the ammonia very rapidly. My point here is the efficiency of plants with ammonia.

You stem plants will continue to grow, spreading across the surface, so that is fine. As I said earlier, the lower leaves may yellow and fall off; stem plants put their energy into the growing tips, and being closer to the light, and when floating using CO2 from the air, these should grow fairly rapidly.

Water Lettuce is a nice floating plant.

Can you post a photo of the floating banana plant leaves?

Byron.

 

[Yarkii]

Can you post a photo of the floating banana plant leaves?

Thank you Byron.

I'll respond properly in a couple of hours (it's mad hour in the early evening here right now). I just thought I'd post a photo of the lily pads (I'm guessing I can call them that), and one of the whole tank. Perhaps I've gone overboard with the plants, but I just love them, and still want to get a few more little things.

One of the lily pads is open, but the other is still curled up (the yellowish thing behind the open pad). The open one looks better now, if that's the colour it's meant to be. When I previously looked at it, it was partly yellowy and partly brown, and I thought the brown bits meant the light was scorching it, but it looks healthy now to my untrained eye. (?)

I'll also re-measure the KH & GH soon, to see if they're still rising. If I need to rethink the fish species for where the water parameters settle, then so be it - that's what I'll do.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Yarkii]

Hi Byron.

This is my reply #2 to your last message. (I'm only saying that because I realise these forums don't necessarily make it clear if there have been two or more replies instead of one.)

I don't know what the ViviD is, but if it is a bacterial supplement intended to seed a new tank, it shouldn't harm anything.

There's a photo of the ViviD packet below. I can't find anything online about either ViviD or the company named on the pack. This is all the info I have about it. I've assumed that it's a bacterial supplement. It says to also add it during water changes. It doesn't mention ammonia. I should probably ask the LFS who sold it to me if they have an info sheet or something about it. I'm just not sure whether to use it with a water change. I intend using Prime & Flourish with the water changes.

I just would not add "ammonia" any longer.

I won't.

Mollies will need harder water than the tests indicate so far, and platy similar but not as critical. Guppies would be OK as far as the parameters. But let's get the plants issue fixed.

Today's parameters, 47 hours after Dose #3 of ammonia (a full dose) are:

Temp 24C
pH 7.4 (according to the Seachem alert)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
GH 161 ppm (9 drops)
KH 125 ppm (7 drops)

The water change will have to wait until tomorrow, as it's getting late.

But....... I've realised that I have a whole new question:

If the aragonite and coral sand substrate raises the KH & GH slowly, does that mean that once I have fish in there, I can't do very big water changes (as the GH & KH will change immensely with a big water change using Melbourne's very soft water)?

Won't there be problems having yo-yoing hardness with each water change?

When first filling this tank, when there was just a very minimal amount of coral sand in it, plus one piece of driftwood with anubias & moss, plus Prime & Flourish in the water, using the API 5-in-1 test strips (which I don't think are very accurate, as well as having limited points of measurement), the KH was 40 GH was 《30.

One day after adding 30kg of aragonite & coral sand: KH 40 & GH 30-60 (test strip).

Two days after adding aragonite & coral sand: KH ~80 & GH ~60 (test strip).

Three days after adding aragonite & coral sand: KH ~80 & GH ~120 (test strip).

Four days after adding aragonite & coral sand: KH 80+ & GH ~180 (test strip), but KH 89.5 & GH 125 (API drops).

Five days after adding aragonite & coral sand: GH 143.2 (API drops). I didn't test KH.

Eight days after adding aragonite & coral sand: GH 143.2 (API drops). (The strip said KH 40 & GH 120+.)

Twelve days after adding aragonite & coral sand: KH 107.4 & GH 161.1 (API drops).

Eighteen days after adding aragonite & coral sand (today): KH 125 & GH 161.1 (API drops).

BUT.... with weekly water changes, I won't get to days twelve and beyond. I don't truly have a clear view of what happened in the first few days, because I was using the test strips (which don't seem that great). Overall, it seems to have been a slow rise, through ranges that would be good for some fish but not others, into ranges that would be good and bad for entirely different fish species.

I guess that I'll have to monitor the GH & KH (and pH for that matter) daily after the water change, before settling on buying any fish. Do you think the rise might have been slow because it's a brand new tank / brand new set-up, and that the water changes won't catastrophically affect the hardness?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[NickAu]

the lily pads (I'm guessing I can call them that)

These things are cool and grow fast once they get over the shock of being moved, a healthy plant can produce one or 2 new lilly pads every week, and it only takes them a day or 2 to reach the surface, oh and those leaves can get quite big, once it takes off you will need to keep cutting leaves off unless you want them to cover the tank.

 

[Yarkii]

These things are cool and grow fast once they get over the shock of being moved, a healthy plant can produce one or 2 new lilly pads every week, and it only takes them a day or 2 to reach the surface, oh and those leaves can get quite big, once it takes off you will need to keep cutting leaves off unless you want them to cover the tank.

Ah! Thanks Nick.

I bought two at the same time. One seems to be doing well. I just noticed a third little shoot heading upwards. The other one doesn't seem to have settled in quite so well as yet.

I was planning to look for more of them, as they're such lovely looking little plants, rather like anubias but very light in colour. I hadn't thought about how big the lily pads would get. Perhaps I'll hold off buying more for now, and see how these two go.

Does the 'Au' in your name mean you're from Australia?



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

I would not use the ViviD. The "claims" it makes worry me--whenever I see products that claim to somehow mysterious make organics/waste disappear and "reduce" water changes, maintenance...forget it.

Banana plant leaf seems OK. Colour is described in books as "yellowish green to a weak brownish colour, underside red spotted."

As for water changes, you will have to see. Before any fish go in, do water changes (after you get the GH up a bit more) and see what results. Smaller volumes may be needed, I can't say.

 

[Yarkii]

Thanks Byron.

I would not use the ViviD. The "claims" it makes worry me--whenever I see products that claim to somehow mysterious make organics/waste disappear and "reduce" water changes, maintenance...forget it.

I'll scrap the ViviD.

Banana plant leaf seems OK. Colour is described in books as "yellowish green to a weak brownish colour, underside red spotted."

Thank you so much for checking for me. I noticed a few new growths on a few plants tonight, such as new anubia leaves and what I think looks like tiny little new hairgrass growing in a different spot to any I've planted.

As for water changes, you will have to see. Before any fish go in, do water changes (after you get the GH up a bit more) and see what results. Smaller volumes may be needed, I can't say.

Thanks Byron. I've suddenly panicked about the possibility of fluctuating pH, KH & GH with water changes, since it's the aragonite & coral sand substrate that are raising all of these from my very soft tap water.

In addition to the use of aragonite & coral sand as substrate, would it be at all helpful to put some aragonite in the filter? I'm not sure if fine sand can go in a filter media bag, but if it can, is that likely to make any difference at all in addition to the substrate?

I guess I need to continue this as an experiment, to see what happens to the pH, KH & GH with water changes.

Until this issue came to mind, the plan was to do a very big water change after cycling. I think I should still do a big water change, and if everything drops and takes a while to go back up again, I'll then observe what happens with smaller water changes.

Thanks Byron. You must cringe when you see a new post in these threads. I hope my questions aren't stealing too much of your time.





Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk