I Am Killing My Fish & On The Point Of Giving Up!

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Baltipal

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Hi all.
We've had our Marina Style 60 tank since November, We ran it fishless for two weeks then stocked it with six Platies, five Tetras & a sucker fish. All was well for a week or so then in a over enthusiastic moment we bought six Guppies. The Guppies were all dead by next morning & I accept that 1/ I maybe should have waited alittle longer before trying Guppies out & 2/ The water change the day before probably wasn't such a good idea but I am kind of new to this & I'm on a steep learning curve!
My problem now is that we've lost four of the Platies, two Reds, one Tuxedo Comet & one Micky Mouse. The remaining MM & TC seem OK, the Tetras are chasing around all over the place & we even have four fry in a isolation net in the tank that seem to be growing up nicely. The tank is at a regular twenty six degrees & we do a water change every week. I feed with a pinch of Nutrafin Max fish flakes well ground up every six to eight hours & although we haven't got a water testing kit yet I'd have thought the fry doing so well in the same stuff would have been a good indicator, we even have another one living in the main tank that we spotted after we fished the other four out for isolation.
I'm not overly sentimental but the netting of dead fish has bruised my soul alittle bit & I can't help but look at the ones that are left & instead of enjoying them I keep asking myself which will be next!
I think that the water change is to blame or rather the awkward way we are going about it, we syphon out about ten to twelve litres replacing with treated, mixed warm & cold which we then add to the tank from a bucket, I'm thinking that the water treatment is at the wrong proportion or/and the shock of how we are topping the tank up is too much for them but again the fry survive it just fine!
What do you all think?
 
hi and welcome :good:

It sounds like you are in a fish in cycle. Please don't stop the water changes it sounds like your doing that right. Temp matching, de-chloring (you can't overdose on it so don't worry about that) and adding slowly from a bucket.

You could be feeding a little too much. Only give what they can consume in less than a minute. Some people on here don't feed everyday, some feed little and often. Personally I feed twice a day a little at a time and make sure they consume it all. Allowing it to settle in the substrate causes ammonia to rise and that ultimately results in the fish dying of ammonia poisoning.

I would look at getting a liquid freshwater test kit (don't get strips they are really inaccurate) and test the water daily for PH, Ammonia, NitrIte and NitrAte.

Your Ph isn't too important - keeping it at a stable level is the immportant bit. If it's stable it's best not to mess with it.

Ammonia needs to be zero. Anything above 0.25 is toxic and will kill your fish rapidly. Any it doesn't kill it will harm perminantly and shorten their life.

NitrIte also needs to be zero. It's not as toxic to the fish as ammonia but keeping it as close to zero as possible is best.

NitrAte ... once this starts showing a reading you know the tank is starting to cycle. It varies in reading from tank to tank but below 40-60 I believe is best


Have a read in the beginners section on fish in cycling. There a whole host of information there and remember the only silly question is the one you don't ask.


Here to help and wishing you the best of luck

Akasha
 
Cheers Akasha, I'll do that but if the ammonia is killing the adults why not the fry?
 
I can't answer that. It may or may not be ammonia - until you can get the water tested for it it's impossible to say for definite. Do you have a local fish store (lfs) nearby that could test your water today? I know pet@home do it for free
 
I can't answer that. It may or may not be ammonia - until you can get the water tested for it it's impossible to say for definite. Do you have a local fish store (lfs) nearby that could test your water today? I know pet@home do it for free


Once again thanks Akasha. I've just read the sticky on cycling & I can see that I've gone about this all wrong. In our defence we were told that we wouldn't need to test the water at first as it was a new tank so we got an entirely incorrect idea of the importance of the water test figuring we'd maybe have to do it after a while & as the kits were about £30 we thought we'd spent enough initially, how wrong can you be!
I also see that I've been over feeding adding to the problem with uneaten food & I suppose all the extra fish poo. I didn't know that Pets@home tested tank water though, we have one quite close to us but from a logistical point of view how do I go about this, do I take a tuppawear container with some in, how does that work, would a bottom feeder like a Shrimp of some sort help?
I know I must be testing your patience so once more many thanks.
 
your not testing my patience at all so don't worry. As I said I'm happy to help - I ended up in the same position so I know how it feels to have been given the wrong advice by the lfs.

Take about 25ml (they need 5ml for each test tube) of tank water to p@h and ask them to test for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. My local store uses the api drop test (which is the best one in my opinion) so your local store is probably using the same.

Once you have your readings get back to me (I'll keep an eye open for you) and we'll go from there.

If you intend to buy your own test kit I would go for the API freshwater masterkit and get it off ebay or amazon - it's about £10 cheaper than p@h

Good luck
 
your not testing my patience at all so don't worry. As I said I'm happy to help - I ended up in the same position so I know how it feels to have been given the wrong advice by the lfs.

Take about 25ml (they need 5ml for each test tube) of tank water to p@h and ask them to test for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. My local store uses the api drop test (which is the best one in my opinion) so your local store is probably using the same.

Once you have your readings get back to me (I'll keep an eye open for you) and we'll go from there.

If you intend to buy your own test kit I would go for the API freshwater masterkit and get it off ebay or amazon - it's about £10 cheaper than p@h

Good luck

Thanks SOoooo much mate, I was about to pack it all in as I really hate fishing the dead ones out, it didn't help that we named them too(daft buggers!)
I have done a mini water change after your last advice however so will this invalidate any test P@H might do?
 
I also recommend the API Master Kit. If you can't afford it right away you can still have your local fish store check it for free until you get one of your own.
 
Thanks SOoooo much mate, I was about to pack it all in as I really hate fishing the dead ones out, it didn't help that we named them too(daft buggers!)
I have done a mini water change after your last advice however so will this invalidate any test P@H might do?

it won't have changed too much if it was only a small change. Still take it and see what the outcome is.
 
Hi, Baltipal. You're indeed in a fish-in cycle, and you should read about it here.

I don't know what you meant when you said you "ran it fishless for two weeks" and then added your fish. Did you just run the tank with the filter on and do nothing else? If that's the case, that didn't do anything to prepare for the fish you introduced.


You should do a really large water change as soon as you can, and by large I mean about 90%, leaving just enough water in the tank so the fish can swim upright. Add temp-matched, dechlorinated (and yes, you can overdose but it takes a lot) water added slowly. According to popular opinion here, it's best to use Seachem Prime or API StressCoat+ for your dechlor as they also remove trace minerals and knock down the ammonia from your tap.


Salifert and Nutrafin make better test kits (in many opinions on this forum) than API. For some reason they tend to read more accurately, especially with the nitrate readings.


You'll likely be doing a large (50% +) water change daily to keep your remaining fish from swimming in ammonia. When you do the changes, do NOT replace any part of the filter. You can gently rinse the floss or sponge, just don't replace it until it starts to fall apart, and then just add new floss without removing the old, where all the beneficial bacteria is growing.


The thing you could do right now that would help immensely is to find someone with an established, healthy tank and ask them for a filter media donation. They can give you about 1/3 of their filter media without doing harm to their own tank, and this will speed up your cycle amazingly fast. Maybe even the LFS will donate some media to you.


Please let us know your progress, and best of luck to you.
smile.gif
 
the guys above have it all covered. above all, don't listen to fish or pet shop staff if the outcome of their advice is you buying something (ie spending money in their shop!) most issues can be fixed with a series of water changes, which of course doesn't make them any money.

suprized they told you to not worry about testing the water though, when i have set tanks up, the first 2-3 months are the most critical with regards to water testing, then after it's all established you can kinda forget about it, sometimes i do a set of tests at the end of the month but more for peace of mind really.
 
OK, Pets at Home have come through & here are the results;

AMMONIA 0.25

NITRITES 5.0

NITRATES 80.0

PH 7.2

The lady at P@H suggested a large 50% water change next Saturday & not feeding them for a day or two then only a flake or so each.
 
NEXT SATURDAY???? How about right NOW? With nitrites at 5 your fish are being poisoned. Do a 90% change ASAP. Then check the levels. You really need your own test kit.
 
OOOOHHHH that's not good at all :no: :S

first thing is ignore the lady at p@h seriously. 50% will do very little

I would be looking at changing a large amount of water - leave enough for them to swim upright. Dig the syphon into the gravel to suck the rotting food up. Cut down on food and test the water again tomorrow. Make sure you temp match and de-chlorinate and re-add slowly. Remember to switch the heater and filter off while you do this. Leave the filter media alone for a couple of weeks - let the bacteria build up. When it needs a rinse remember to do it in old tank water that you've syphoned off as chlorine kills the bacteria. When you get this over with you can get rid of the carbon filter sponge if you wish and put a normal sponge in it's place that way you have spare media if something goes wrong or the old original sponge become damaged and needs replacing.
It might also be a good idea when you are testing water to see what the water coming out of the taps is at - it's good to know what it's ph is and if there's any ammonia in there

Good luck, I can't think of anything else to pass on right now. I'm sure if I've forgotten anything someone else will say it.

Keep us updated - Akasha
 
NEXT SATURDAY???? How about right NOW? With nitrites at 5 your fish are being poisoned. Do a 90% change ASAP. Then check the levels. You really need your own test kit.

They seemed alittle alarmed at the fact we'd done a 20% water change yesterday & a mini one today as well giving us dire warnings of leaching the bacteria out of the tank. I really haven't helped matters by swilling the filter under the tap which apparently is a massive no-no. I feel really foolish about all of this & certainly wish I'd done things differently from the beginning but you live & learn.
I ran the tank fishless but with a substance in to help build bacteria called Aquacycle but that clearly wasn't sufficient.
 

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