Fixing Juwel Light Bar.
- Thread starter doresy
- Start date
Hello,
The replacement ballast (ELXE 238 527) dimensions are: 359mm long, 28.5mm high and 30.4mm wide. Distance between fixing centres (if yours is not just stuck in) is 350mm.
The above datasheet extract confirms that this one supports 2 x 30W T8 tubes.
The RHS diagram shows the schematic for use with 2 tubes. This confirms that this ballast is perfectly OK for you to use.
I've found this one at http
/www.bltdirect.com/vossloh-schwabe-38-watt-twin-high-frequency-t8-ballast?
You may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere.. just google the part number (Elxe 238.527).
Your local electrical wholesaler may have this one (or be able to order it for you) slightly cheaper.
If I find anything cheaper in the next couple of days, then I'll post here...
Any questions at all... just post here.
Bodge99
The replacement ballast (ELXE 238 527) dimensions are: 359mm long, 28.5mm high and 30.4mm wide. Distance between fixing centres (if yours is not just stuck in) is 350mm.
The above datasheet extract confirms that this one supports 2 x 30W T8 tubes.
The RHS diagram shows the schematic for use with 2 tubes. This confirms that this ballast is perfectly OK for you to use.
I've found this one at http
/www.bltdirect.com/vossloh-schwabe-38-watt-twin-high-frequency-t8-ballast?You may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere.. just google the part number (Elxe 238.527).
Your local electrical wholesaler may have this one (or be able to order it for you) slightly cheaper.
If I find anything cheaper in the next couple of days, then I'll post here...
Any questions at all... just post here.
Bodge99
Hello,
If you decide to go for this ballast then connect up as shown below
Old ballast New ballast
1 2
2* 3*
5 6
Old ballast connection 2 / New ballast connection 3 is the commoned connection.
Old No. 1 can be connected to New No. 2 or No. 6.
Old No. 5 can be connected to New No. 6 or No. 2.
(i.e. these two can be reversed. Obviously **NOT** connected to the same terminal.)
Old No. 2 **MUST** connect to New No. 3.
If you do manage to find another cold cathode ballast and you would like confirmation that it is suitable for you then just the post the details here and I'll confirm it for you.
Over to you...
Bodge99.
If you decide to go for this ballast then connect up as shown below
Old ballast New ballast
1 2
2* 3*
5 6
Old ballast connection 2 / New ballast connection 3 is the commoned connection.
Old No. 1 can be connected to New No. 2 or No. 6.
Old No. 5 can be connected to New No. 6 or No. 2.
(i.e. these two can be reversed. Obviously **NOT** connected to the same terminal.)
Old No. 2 **MUST** connect to New No. 3.
If you do manage to find another cold cathode ballast and you would like confirmation that it is suitable for you then just the post the details here and I'll confirm it for you.
Over to you...
Bodge99.
Thanks ever so much for your help i really appreciate it, I found this one but no idea if its suitable can you take a look?
Thanks
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nemesis-Dimable-cold-cathode-High-output-Ballast-control-unit-/310690211130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item485694653a
Thanks
http
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nemesis-Dimable-cold-cathode-High-output-Ballast-control-unit-/310690211130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item485694653a
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Hello,
Unsure what this one is actually. I think it might be out of a shop display or illuminated sign. There appears to be 3 output connections which could be for 2 tubes with a common connection...
I'd guess that this one is for a single tube. It might be worth contacting the seller to ask for the rating of the ballast...
You need to know:
How many tubes it supports.
Tube(s) power ratings.
Tube size supported (T5, T8 etc.)
Input supply voltage (to ensure that it will work in the UK).
Connection details (esp. if this one does actually support 2 tubes.)
I'll have a look at my data sheets and see if I can find it.
Bodge99
Unsure what this one is actually. I think it might be out of a shop display or illuminated sign. There appears to be 3 output connections which could be for 2 tubes with a common connection...
I'd guess that this one is for a single tube. It might be worth contacting the seller to ask for the rating of the ballast...
You need to know:
How many tubes it supports.
Tube(s) power ratings.
Tube size supported (T5, T8 etc.)
Input supply voltage (to ensure that it will work in the UK).
Connection details (esp. if this one does actually support 2 tubes.)
I'll have a look at my data sheets and see if I can find it.
Bodge99
Hello,
It would appear that this ballast is for a specific type of lighting tube that is not the same as used on tanks.
Therefore it would appear to be a no go with this one.
The seller seems to be referring to cold cathode type tubes (these have no heater)... The cold cathode ballast type that you require is different.
Most ballast manufacturers don't really differentiate between hot or cold ballasts in their sales documentation (for types suitable for us). You will often see cold cathode ballasts described as "fast start" or "quick start"... however some marketing depts. use the same description for both types... The only way to be sure is to see the ballast wiring diagram/schematic.
I'll have a look at my datasheets and see if I can find something.
Your other option (not really practical, unless you can obtain the tube sockets cheaply enough) is to change the tube sockets for two wire types... This would enable you to use any ballast on Ebay that supported 2 x 30W T8 .
Be aware that you would have to use waterproof sockets for safety reasons.
It might be worth looking at your existing tube sockets... You **may** be very lucky and find that they are either
a). Already 2 wire sockets.. The 2 wires may be joined together externally... to suit a cold cathode ballast.
or
b). It may be possible to open them to access the terminals (they may be screwed or clipped together).
The only way to find out is to look and see.
If this is possible, then it is an easy job to rewire them... I'll talk you through how to do it.
Bodge99
It would appear that this ballast is for a specific type of lighting tube that is not the same as used on tanks.
Therefore it would appear to be a no go with this one.
The seller seems to be referring to cold cathode type tubes (these have no heater)... The cold cathode ballast type that you require is different.
Most ballast manufacturers don't really differentiate between hot or cold ballasts in their sales documentation (for types suitable for us). You will often see cold cathode ballasts described as "fast start" or "quick start"... however some marketing depts. use the same description for both types... The only way to be sure is to see the ballast wiring diagram/schematic.
I'll have a look at my datasheets and see if I can find something.
Your other option (not really practical, unless you can obtain the tube sockets cheaply enough) is to change the tube sockets for two wire types... This would enable you to use any ballast on Ebay that supported 2 x 30W T8 .
Be aware that you would have to use waterproof sockets for safety reasons.
It might be worth looking at your existing tube sockets... You **may** be very lucky and find that they are either
a). Already 2 wire sockets.. The 2 wires may be joined together externally... to suit a cold cathode ballast.
or
b). It may be possible to open them to access the terminals (they may be screwed or clipped together).
The only way to find out is to look and see.
If this is possible, then it is an easy job to rewire them... I'll talk you through how to do it.
Bodge99
Hello,
Seen these on Ebay http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Juwel-End-Caps-Waterproof-T8-Fluorescent-Lamps-Holder-marine-fishtank-aquarium-/251297416702?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3a827e45fe £6.95 + £2.02 p+p for a pair
or http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-T8-BULB-BASE-SOCKET-DIY-LIGHTING-SPARE-PART-/400520284039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d40de8787 £3.29 + £3.96 p+p (from Hong Kong) per pair.
I've bought loads of electronics from China... no problems at all (for me, anyway).
You could then use any 2 x 30W ballast.
Bodge99.
Seen these on Ebay http
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Juwel-End-Caps-Waterproof-T8-Fluorescent-Lamps-Holder-marine-fishtank-aquarium-/251297416702?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3a827e45fe £6.95 + £2.02 p+p for a pairor http
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-T8-BULB-BASE-SOCKET-DIY-LIGHTING-SPARE-PART-/400520284039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d40de8787 £3.29 + £3.96 p+p (from Hong Kong) per pair.I've bought loads of electronics from China... no problems at all (for me, anyway).
You could then use any 2 x 30W ballast.
Bodge99.
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Hello,
I've not had a great deal of luck finding a cheap cold cathode ballast rated for 2x30W in the UK.
I've located 6 types/families, 4 are obsolete and the other 2 don't seem to be readily available online.
The Sylvania Quicktronic T8 instant start range. Any of the 2x32W (cold cathode) versions (there are quite a few specific models).
These units have no terminals and are wire ended to suit US regulations... You would have to use connector blocks or solder the wires to the existing ones.
The datasheets show that these correctly support 30W tubes.
Philips: Some Centium and some Optanium models. Most of the 2x30W models appear to be cold cathode types.
You may have to visit your local electrical wholesalers to see what they carry/can get for you. It would probably be an idea to take the old ballast with you (mark the leads before you remove them!). Don't be surprised if they give you a blank stare when you mention cold cathode ballasts... Some people refer to this type a "2 wire mode".
Don't say that I didn't try...
Good luck
Bodge99
I've not had a great deal of luck finding a cheap cold cathode ballast rated for 2x30W in the UK.
I've located 6 types/families, 4 are obsolete and the other 2 don't seem to be readily available online.
The Sylvania Quicktronic T8 instant start range. Any of the 2x32W (cold cathode) versions (there are quite a few specific models).
These units have no terminals and are wire ended to suit US regulations... You would have to use connector blocks or solder the wires to the existing ones.
The datasheets show that these correctly support 30W tubes.
Philips: Some Centium and some Optanium models. Most of the 2x30W models appear to be cold cathode types.
You may have to visit your local electrical wholesalers to see what they carry/can get for you. It would probably be an idea to take the old ballast with you (mark the leads before you remove them!). Don't be surprised if they give you a blank stare when you mention cold cathode ballasts... Some people refer to this type a "2 wire mode".
Don't say that I didn't try...
Good luck
Bodge99
So damn frustrated right now, was sold a Juwel Rio 180, 'needs two new lights mate', brought it home and discovered this thread.
2 new tubes just to check, nothing, changed fuse in plug, nothing, 3A?
Went to local electrical shop today and they only had a 2x36 ballast anyway, thought I'd leave it, come home and strip mine and start beginning looking on eBay.
I've just half destroyed my light fixing trying to get the ballast out, removed it from casing and opened it up and there's absolutely nothing that looks wrong with it, all resistors look fine, nothing burnt out etc.
Soooo damn angry, Going to try and get one of my sparky mates to have a look at it but thinking the destruction might have been in total vein.
2 new tubes just to check, nothing, changed fuse in plug, nothing, 3A?
Went to local electrical shop today and they only had a 2x36 ballast anyway, thought I'd leave it, come home and strip mine and start beginning looking on eBay.
I've just half destroyed my light fixing trying to get the ballast out, removed it from casing and opened it up and there's absolutely nothing that looks wrong with it, all resistors look fine, nothing burnt out etc.
Soooo damn angry, Going to try and get one of my sparky mates to have a look at it but thinking the destruction might have been in total vein.
Hello,
I feel your pain... It's perfectly possible that your ballast has failed.. but it is also possible that something as simple as a high resistance connection somewhere might be causing the problem.
If possible, ask your mate to check the following.
(it might be an idea to watch closely what he does if you don't know how to use a multimeter. Ask him questions until you get some idea of what's what. By all means ask here as well if you want clarification on anything.).
Don't try and measure **ANYTHING** on a powered ballast! You have been warned!! (I'm concerned about YOUR safety!)
I have done and do repair electronics like this... but due to time and parts costs it is often not economical to repair these. A new unit will have a warrenty on it!
Prove the mains wiring from each plug pin to the relevant ballast connection. These should be low resistance. Don't forget any inline switch. This should ideally be a double pole (switches both live and neutral) but may not be.
It is possible that the switch has failed.
A favourite point of failure is conductor fracture at any point of restriction (e.g. where the cable enters the hood or even within the cord grip in the plug). Physically move the wire and see if the resistance changes.
Now look at the schematic on the ballast housing (most newer ballasts have these). This should give an indication as to how the tubes are wired. You need to prove each wire from the ballast to the relevant tube socket pin. This might take a little trial and error until you can identify each wire specifically.
Some tube sockets are prone to corrosion problems.... A resistance check will indicate this. Normally the best way to clean them is to fit and remove the tube a few times.. The slight abrasion from this action is normally enough to clear this. Bad cases might require a little switch cleaner.
Assuming that all of the wiring is OK and that the replacement tubes are actually OK. then it would seem that the ballast may have failed.
BE AWARE that the wiring of the hood will dictate what type of ballast you can use as a replacement. You do need the correct type. Don't guess... ask here for help!
If you wish, upload a picture or two of the old ballast. I'll need to see the schematic (if present), the wiring connections and the ballast make and model number.
Also, could you confirm the tube sizes and ratings (e.g. 2x30W T8). I've seen hoods with the wrong ballasts fitted from new.. These were potentially a fire risk!
You have done the hard bit.. getting the old ballast out. The easy bit is replacing it with a new one.
It is important that the ballast is wired up correctly. If you need me to, i'll talk you through checking everything out.
Over to you..
Bodge99.
I feel your pain... It's perfectly possible that your ballast has failed.. but it is also possible that something as simple as a high resistance connection somewhere might be causing the problem.
If possible, ask your mate to check the following.
(it might be an idea to watch closely what he does if you don't know how to use a multimeter. Ask him questions until you get some idea of what's what. By all means ask here as well if you want clarification on anything.).
Don't try and measure **ANYTHING** on a powered ballast! You have been warned!! (I'm concerned about YOUR safety!)
I have done and do repair electronics like this... but due to time and parts costs it is often not economical to repair these. A new unit will have a warrenty on it!
Prove the mains wiring from each plug pin to the relevant ballast connection. These should be low resistance. Don't forget any inline switch. This should ideally be a double pole (switches both live and neutral) but may not be.
It is possible that the switch has failed.
A favourite point of failure is conductor fracture at any point of restriction (e.g. where the cable enters the hood or even within the cord grip in the plug). Physically move the wire and see if the resistance changes.
Now look at the schematic on the ballast housing (most newer ballasts have these). This should give an indication as to how the tubes are wired. You need to prove each wire from the ballast to the relevant tube socket pin. This might take a little trial and error until you can identify each wire specifically.
Some tube sockets are prone to corrosion problems.... A resistance check will indicate this. Normally the best way to clean them is to fit and remove the tube a few times.. The slight abrasion from this action is normally enough to clear this. Bad cases might require a little switch cleaner.
Assuming that all of the wiring is OK and that the replacement tubes are actually OK. then it would seem that the ballast may have failed.
BE AWARE that the wiring of the hood will dictate what type of ballast you can use as a replacement. You do need the correct type. Don't guess... ask here for help!
If you wish, upload a picture or two of the old ballast. I'll need to see the schematic (if present), the wiring connections and the ballast make and model number.
Also, could you confirm the tube sizes and ratings (e.g. 2x30W T8). I've seen hoods with the wrong ballasts fitted from new.. These were potentially a fire risk!
You have done the hard bit.. getting the old ballast out. The easy bit is replacing it with a new one.
It is important that the ballast is wired up correctly. If you need me to, i'll talk you through checking everything out.
Over to you..
Bodge99.
Cheers pal, very informative post indeed.
Got him to check it out today and it is indeed the ballast that's failed, checked with multimeter, then a watt stick(?) that the tip lights up on when you touch a cable carrying current.
Power in is fine, somewhere halfway down the PCB something has failed and the light goes off, amazing contraption, guess I had the right person on the job.
My ballast (YZ2x36E) has written on it,
F36 T8 72w 0.32a
F30 T8 60w 0.27a
F25 T8 50w 0.22a
Pressumably this means the actual ballast could run, 2x25, 2x30 or 2x36 watt bulbs? The part number suggests it's a 2x36w ballast too.
The tubes I currently have in are 1x36w, 1x30w, the friend who checked said this shouldn't stop the ballast starting up, he did mention it might need to see a load to actually ignite, or something like that.
He googled a possible replacement for me and said he'll assist in wiring it in.
The replacement has six pins, compared to 8 previously and will share a neutral and live, as opposed to running seperately for each channel.
Are we on the right lines?
Mine;
eBay offering;
http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160986865253?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D160986865253%26_rdc%3D1
Got him to check it out today and it is indeed the ballast that's failed, checked with multimeter, then a watt stick(?) that the tip lights up on when you touch a cable carrying current.
Power in is fine, somewhere halfway down the PCB something has failed and the light goes off, amazing contraption, guess I had the right person on the job.
My ballast (YZ2x36E) has written on it,
F36 T8 72w 0.32a
F30 T8 60w 0.27a
F25 T8 50w 0.22a
Pressumably this means the actual ballast could run, 2x25, 2x30 or 2x36 watt bulbs? The part number suggests it's a 2x36w ballast too.
The tubes I currently have in are 1x36w, 1x30w, the friend who checked said this shouldn't stop the ballast starting up, he did mention it might need to see a load to actually ignite, or something like that.
He googled a possible replacement for me and said he'll assist in wiring it in.
The replacement has six pins, compared to 8 previously and will share a neutral and live, as opposed to running seperately for each channel.
Are we on the right lines?
Mine;
eBay offering;
http
/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160986865253?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D160986865253%26_rdc%3D1
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Hello,
Good to hear that you've made progress...
I've seen these ballasts before.. They are actually a rebranded type. (one of 3 specific manufacturers). It's probable that the output stage DC level control is out of spec. This can lead to cascade failure in the boost power factor correction stage, so leading to failure in the lamp output drivers (could just be a couple of triacs). Repair is certainly possible but would be time consuming to fault find and almost certainly not cost effective.
The technical term for this is "knackered".. ;>)
Anyway, you have a hot cathode type ballast. This type uses (nominally) 2 wires per tube socket. See earlier posts and some of the other lighting threads for some information on both hot and cold ballasts if required.
You can use any ballast available to you (either hot or cold types) **AS LONG** as it is rated for your tubes.
A 2x36W T8 ballast **may** be OK on 2x30W. You will have to check the manufacturers data sheet to check. (just google the ballast family ID/ballast model number).
The main purpose of the ballast is to limit the operating current through the tube.. If the ballast is "expecting" a 36W tube, then too high a current is driven through a 30W tube. This will reduce the life of the tube slightly. Better ballast designs (the ones that properly support multiple wattages) use the derived tube impedence to adjust the output current to suit a particular tube.
I'd be careful driving mismatched tubes (tube power rating)... How this affects ballast life is (again) dependent on the specific ballast design.
If the tube monitoring electronics just monitor one of the tubes (some designs do, some don't and monitor all tubes, some monitor "one of each pair" in a multiple tube setup [4 or more tubes]) then incorrect operating currents will occur in the unmonitored tube. This results in either an underdriven tube (lower light output, i.e. dimmer) or an over driven tube (shorter life). Some tube heaters (filaments) will fail a lot sooner than they should... (rapid filament evaporation.. even metal sputtering in extreme cases).
It sounds like your mate knows what he is doing... Just ensure that he makes proper connections when joining wires together.
Don't just twist the wires and use electrical tape. It **WILL** sweat off over time.
Keep the tube wiring the same length. Ideally each conductor the same length per tube. At the very least, keep the length of each pair the same per tube end. If you need to extend any wiring, use solid core wire.
Try and route the wires away from the incoming mains cable (as much as is possible). Certainly don't tape/tie the wires to the cable.
If you want any further help, or would like me to check out a particular ballast for you, then just ask here.
Good luck!
Bodge99.
Good to hear that you've made progress...
I've seen these ballasts before.. They are actually a rebranded type. (one of 3 specific manufacturers). It's probable that the output stage DC level control is out of spec. This can lead to cascade failure in the boost power factor correction stage, so leading to failure in the lamp output drivers (could just be a couple of triacs). Repair is certainly possible but would be time consuming to fault find and almost certainly not cost effective.
The technical term for this is "knackered".. ;>)
Anyway, you have a hot cathode type ballast. This type uses (nominally) 2 wires per tube socket. See earlier posts and some of the other lighting threads for some information on both hot and cold ballasts if required.
You can use any ballast available to you (either hot or cold types) **AS LONG** as it is rated for your tubes.
A 2x36W T8 ballast **may** be OK on 2x30W. You will have to check the manufacturers data sheet to check. (just google the ballast family ID/ballast model number).
The main purpose of the ballast is to limit the operating current through the tube.. If the ballast is "expecting" a 36W tube, then too high a current is driven through a 30W tube. This will reduce the life of the tube slightly. Better ballast designs (the ones that properly support multiple wattages) use the derived tube impedence to adjust the output current to suit a particular tube.
I'd be careful driving mismatched tubes (tube power rating)... How this affects ballast life is (again) dependent on the specific ballast design.
If the tube monitoring electronics just monitor one of the tubes (some designs do, some don't and monitor all tubes, some monitor "one of each pair" in a multiple tube setup [4 or more tubes]) then incorrect operating currents will occur in the unmonitored tube. This results in either an underdriven tube (lower light output, i.e. dimmer) or an over driven tube (shorter life). Some tube heaters (filaments) will fail a lot sooner than they should... (rapid filament evaporation.. even metal sputtering in extreme cases).
It sounds like your mate knows what he is doing... Just ensure that he makes proper connections when joining wires together.
Don't just twist the wires and use electrical tape. It **WILL** sweat off over time.
Keep the tube wiring the same length. Ideally each conductor the same length per tube. At the very least, keep the length of each pair the same per tube end. If you need to extend any wiring, use solid core wire.
Try and route the wires away from the incoming mains cable (as much as is possible). Certainly don't tape/tie the wires to the cable.
If you want any further help, or would like me to check out a particular ballast for you, then just ask here.
Good luck!
Bodge99.
Thanks again pal, great post.
The logical way to get around this is to buy a 2x36w ballast and another 36w tube, everything then should be matched and happy, I like happy.
I'll try the ballast in the link and purchase another 36w build to suit.
All joins will be soldered and heat shrunk, this isn't a job I want to be doing again
Hopefully my next post in here will be of two bright, shining lights. Fingers crossed, thanks again!
The logical way to get around this is to buy a 2x36w ballast and another 36w tube, everything then should be matched and happy, I like happy.
I'll try the ballast in the link and purchase another 36w build to suit.
All joins will be soldered and heat shrunk, this isn't a job I want to be doing again
Hopefully my next post in here will be of two bright, shining lights. Fingers crossed, thanks again!
Hello,
Good attitude... thanks for the feedback.. much appreciated!
One last thing... When you rebuild the hood, try and ensure that the hood is totally sealed as far as is possible.
Warm, moist tank air entering the hood will gradually cause an increase in humidity inside the hood over time... Humid air and high voltage electronics don't mix very well. Any sort of flashover inside the ballast housing will probably kill it.
This is probably the biggest cause of ballast failure.
Again, good luck!
Bodge99.
Good attitude... thanks for the feedback.. much appreciated!
One last thing... When you rebuild the hood, try and ensure that the hood is totally sealed as far as is possible.
Warm, moist tank air entering the hood will gradually cause an increase in humidity inside the hood over time... Humid air and high voltage electronics don't mix very well. Any sort of flashover inside the ballast housing will probably kill it.
This is probably the biggest cause of ballast failure.
Again, good luck!
Bodge99.
Hi, Im new to the site and fish keeping in general but i have recently got a rio 125 and the light bar ballast has gone, I have the one with 3 wires on the output. could someone please put me in the direction of a cheap replacement, the ones i have seen are all over £30. thanks. Can a 6 wire output ballast be wired to the old 3 wire one by bridging connections.Taggy00123 said:Hi
I am having exactly the same issue with my juwel 180 lighting system as you had. I opened the plastic canpoy to find a ballast with 3 wires on one end an two on the other - i just wondered if you managed to resolve the problem and if so how. Having just spent a fortune on having to replace both the tubes, powerhead and heater within the last 4 weeks trying desperatley not to have to buy a new unit.
can anyone help me find a replacment ballast for my lights, my ballast only has 5 wires total. here is a photo
if anyone could tell me which one i need then that would be great.
cheers
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