Fish died after moving to new cycled tank!

[Emmifer]

Hi all,
I posted on here a couple of months ago asking for advice on setting up a new 60l tank for my minnows who I previously housed in a 30 litre biorb and wanted to give them more space.
So... I thought I did everything right. I have a 60 l rectangular tank with an elite stingray 15 filter. I bought substrate plant fertiliser for the bottom of the tank and caribsea black sand which I rinsed out first until it ran clear to cover it. I then added water which I treated with tapsafe and left the filter to run for a couple weeks before I added plants. Then I ordered a complete aquascaping kit from aqua-essentials which has 6 large live plants and rock and driftwood and planted the tank up, it looks great and I couldn't wait to add my little minnows but I wanted to make sure that the tank was established and growing so I added filter start for the first couple weeks as well as putting 1ml of easycarbo co2 in the tank daily for the plants and a once weekly dose of 5 mls profito fertiliser. I left the tank running like this for another 4 weeks, testing with the API kit. The nitrites were high for a while but on Saturday they had finally reached 0 and 0 ammonia and about 2.5 nitrate. So I took the plunge and moved my minnows into their lovely new home. They have all died except one, I'm gutted!!! Can anyone shed some light where I may have gone wrong and what I can do next?

 

[SeanTrollope]

Okay so how often did you do water changes on the new tank. Because that is a heck lot of additives that are not really necessary. Also one should wait for a constant 0 reading before adding fish. This ensured that it is a stable tank.

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[Emmifer]

Thanks for getting back to me, I haven't done any water changes as was told not to while cycling, would that be the problem?! Feel awful about my little fish!!

 

[SeanTrollope]

Okay whoever told you that is a total idiot. Water changes are vital to keep the tank free of toxins. Especially if you are adding things to the tank like fertiliser. If one doesn't these things build up in the tank and when there is to much it becomes toxic to say the least.

Also please don't feel bad. These things happen and we have all made these mistakes. The best way to learn is through mistakes.

Right now the best thing that you can do is a very large water change to rid the tank of most of the built up chemicals and what not.

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[Byron]

There may be something here we are not seeing.

You do not mention adding any ammonia, so I cannot explain why nitrites would be high for some period. I read through the old thread, and in that I explained the "cycling" with live plants.

Second issue is that this tank came from someone else...did you keep/use any of the filter media, or any other internal stuff?

Byron.

 

[Emmifer]

Hi, thank you both for getting back to me. No I didn't add any ammonia. The nitrites were sky high (dark purple) for a couple weeks and I called my local fish store, they advised to just leave the tank to do its "thing" which I did and 2 weeks later the readings were 0 so I added my 4 minnows. I didn't add anything from my old tank as I have a huge snail infestation and didn't want to inadvertently move any over to the new tank. The tank was empty and had nothing in it, I got a new filter sponge etc for it.
I'll do a large, 50/75% water change or more if you recommend? And try and save my remaining minnow who is hiding underneath a rock

 

[SeanTrollope]

For now that is probably the best option. This will help tremendously as it will reduce the toxins.


I must add that you shouldn't ever trust anything a petshop employee tells you.

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[Emmifer]

I certainly will never trust what they say ever again!! I'll do a large water change as you recommend. As all my plants are growing like mad and flourishing do you suggest I stop adding the co2 etc for a little while until I get the tank back under control?

 

[Byron]

Yes on the water change. Whenever I see a problem, the first action is almost always a massive water change. Sometimes that in itself solves whatever it was. It certainly will not harm, provided parameters (hardness and pH) are relatively similar between tank water and tap water.

I still cannot understand nitrite being as bad as it seems to have been.

Now,on these plant additives. I do not personally use these, so I looked them up. The Profito seems to be a sort of basic fertilizer; the web site does not list what exactly is in it, which always bothers me. But provided you do not overdose, and preferably use less than whatever they recommend, it may be OK. Excess can be problematic in any situation or with any product. In a review article on Practical Fishkeeping that I came across online, George Farmer said this product would benefit in some cases, and mentioned it contains micro nutrients as well as potassium and magnesium.

The EasyCarbo is a different matter. In that same review, Farmer warned of overdosing that would kill livestock, some plants, and being sensitive to shrimps. From this I am skeptical that this may be a product similar to Excel and CO2 Booster, which contain glutaraldehyde. I would never add this to an aquarium with fish or invertebrates, it is a deadly toxic disinfectant substance. CO2 will occur naturally in any fish tank, from the decomposition of organics in the substrate primarily.

I'm not suggesting either of the plant additives killed the fish outright, but they may well have done so, or contributed.

 

[Emmifer]

Great, thank you for your advice and for taking the time to look up my previous thread etc. I'm in the process of doing a water change so will let you know the outcome in the next few days. Have a good evening!

 

[Lateral Line]

Concerning the ignoring of advice from shop people, I'd be careful there. I had a Saturday job at the local fish shop in the 1970's when I was a teenager. The advice I gave then, I would still give today, simply because it was right, I thought so then, I think so now. Okay, time and science move forward, but there is nothing I would say I said that was actually wrong. Knowing who in the shop to trust is a better, if more difficult, thing.

 

[Byron]

Concerning the ignoring of advice from shop people, I'd be careful there. I had a Saturday job at the local fish shop in the 1970's when I was a teenager. The advice I gave then, I would still give today, simply because it was right, I thought so then, I think so now. Okay, time and science move forward, but there is nothing I would say I said that was actually wrong. Knowing who in the shop to trust is a better, if more difficult, thing.

I agree, but sadly this is not the situation in the majority of fish stores, not in NA or the UK anyway. I was lucky when I got into the hobby seriously in the early 1980's to have an independent fish store owned and fully staffed by hobbyists. The advice I received was accurate, and I still look back to it as definitely setting me on the right course ever since. After I moved cities and got back into the hobby in the early 1990's, I again lucked out with a local store owned and staffed by hobbyists. Their advice also was thought out and reliable.

Chain stores are a very different thing. And reading from so many members here who start out in the hobby buying a tank and taking the advice of the store only to have diseased or dead fish in a couple weeks--it is safer to advise research and questions before purchase.

 

[NewFishPerson]

The advice from one of my local shops has generally been very good. When I was chatting to the guy and talking about some of the things I had discussed here, he remarked that for a newcomer to the hobby, I knew a lot more than some of his self labeled expert customers... I thank Byron for the majority of that ! One of the bigger chain stores I went into however gave completely terrible advice. I remember asking about cycling a tank and they told me all that all cycling really involved was letting water sit in the tank without the pumps running for 2 days! When I asked them about a good tank for angelfish (the fish I wanted to keep at first!) they showed me a smallish hexagonal aquarium and told me that would be more than enough to keep four in with a scattering of tetras. Oh dear!

I think like most things, it's always better to try and do as much research yourself as possible and then use forums like these to fill in the gaps for the bits you do not understand. Even then you have to tread lightly, I've seen some terrible advice dished out elsewhere.

 

[neoyyf]

Yes i would agree that the reason they died is that you did not do a 90-100% water change after the cycle had been completed befire adding fish. Also, not sure how the tank was cycling without an ammonia source but since you only have one fish left in a 60L tank i dont think cycling matters right now.

If ever in future you see your fish acting differently, do a massive water change immediately. The replaced water must be dechlorinated and match the same ph (preferably) and temperature (an absolute must).

 

[Emmifer]

Thank you all for your advice! So I did a 60-70% water change a few days ago and I'm so pleased as my one remaining minnow survived and is looking a lot happier!! So sad about the others as they were the reason I bought a bigger tank but onwards and upwards as they say. So I'm keen to add some more minnows as my 1 minnow looks a little lost on his own. My original idea was that I was going to have about a dozen minnows and 6 cory pandas for the lower part of the tank which was the reason I put sand in for them. I'd like to buy about 6 minnows to get things going, do you think I should do another water change first? I haven't added any more fertiliser or co2 to the tank since the last disaster so all that's been added is tapsafe after the water change a few days ago. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 2.0.....