Driftwood boiling and tannins

[Umbra]

Hi again.

I got some driftwood and just finished boiling it. I kind of like the look of darkwater aquariums and I was wondering if it could be worth it to save the water I boiled the wood in since its rreeaalllyyy dark and I can add a bit with my future water changes to darken the water a bit.

would that be alright, or is that a bad idea to save the boiled water? It's definitely sterile now though, after an hour's worth of boiling...

 

[Byron]

No problem I am aware of; obviously it will be cool (room temp or tank temp) before you add it.

Byron.

 

[Umbra]

No problem I am aware of; obviously it will be cool (room temp or tank temp) before you add it.

Byron.

Alright, then that's good to know, thanks

 

[Byron]

Alright, then that's good to know, thanks

Something just occurred to me about this, and pH. Tannins including those in the boiled water will acidify the water and thus lower the pH, which is fine, but must be taken in context of other factors. I don't know the initial GH/KH/pH of your source water, or of the tank water. Boiling water precipitates out the KH (as far as I can recall) but not the GH, so this pH buffering for this water will be non existent. Which again is not a problem, but when factored in with the initial KH, could be.

In other words, monitor the pH before and after. If you have soft water fish species, this shouldn't bother them, unless the pH drops significantly. With moderately hard water fish, you need to maintain a higher GH/pH.

Byron.

 

[Umbra]

Something just occurred to me about this, and pH. Tannins including those in the boiled water will acidify the water and thus lower the pH, which is fine, but must be taken in context of other factors. I don't know the initial GH/KH/pH of your source water, or of the tank water. Boiling water precipitates out the KH (as far as I can recall) but not the GH, so this pH buffering for this water will be non existent. Which again is not a problem, but when factored in with the initial KH, could be.

In other words, monitor the pH before and after. If you have soft water fish species, this shouldn't bother them, unless the pH drops significantly. With moderately hard water fish, you need to maintain a higher GH/pH.

Byron.

Shoot, ok, I cannot actually afford a testing kit right now, they are stupidly expensive... But I got neon tetras, panda corydoras and dwarf gouramis in my tank if that helps... would it be alright with them? I atleast know that the TDS here is 110, but then again, TDS and GH are not the same, so, yeah...

 

[Byron]

Shoot, ok, I cannot actually afford a testing kit right now, they are stupidly expensive... But I got neon tetras, panda corydoras and dwarf gouramis in my tank if that helps... would it be alright with them? I atleast know that the TDS here is 110, but then again, TDS and GH are not the same, so, yeah...

No problem with the fish, they are all soft water. You just don't weant things dropping suddenly. Go easy on the "blackwater" added. It would help to pin these numbers down...for the source water you can find out from your municipal water authority on their website. The GH, KH and pH may be there, or they can tell you.

A pH test long-term is a good investment. Nitrate and pH changes can be indicative of problems, so it is worth testing these periodically, such as before the weekly water change.

 

[NickAu]

I kind of like the look of darkwater aquariums and I was wondering if it could be worth it to save the water I boiled the wood in since its rreeaalllyyy dark and I can add a bit with my future water changes to darken the water a bit.

Indeed you can, follow Byron's instructions.

Black water tanks are cool and the best way to keep soft water fish. You can also add Indian Almond Leaf and Adler cones to the tank, Just pop a big IAL into the tank it will sink in a day, I dont bother removing the IAL I just leave it rot in the tank.

Check out Demeter32's tank
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/try-for-the-blackwater-look.443008/

And my Betta sorority, and welcome to black water

 

[GobyMaster11276]

So wait, what exactly is this black water thing, and how are you supposed to do it? I keep hearing about it, and am interested.

 

[Ch4rlie]

So wait, what exactly is this black water thing, and how are you supposed to do it? I keep hearing about it, and am interested.

Basically blackwater refers to the habitat in which certain species of fish live in. Usually places such as peat swamps or parts of the Amazon river where it has drained and leaving a small area of water that is blackwater, usually poor in nutrient levels and can be acidic.

This is something that can be vitally important if you are pursuing wild fish in certain areas of the world, such as the above and from areas of the tropical forests in South America, Africa and Southeast Asia. For example a lot of Betta species can be found in peaty, blackwater conditions.

But now, more often than not, its more of a aesthetic look for many aquariums rather than actually replicating the habitats of their chosen fish species (biotope).

Lots of things can give a 'blackwater' look, such as peat, Indian Almond Leaves, Alder Cones and Rooibos Tea. All of which can have a affect on making pH lower so caution to be taken as Byron already mentions.

But there are some benefits of having a blackwater look using IAL or Rooibos tea, they contain tannins and beneficial natural antitoxidants whihc will help their health.

And one last mention, I would not recommend using peat as the choice to make this blackwater look, peat is now rapidly becoming diminished and more of a scarce natural source. Do bear in mind, peat is far more likely to lower your pH to extreme ranges of what any fish specie can tolerate as the peat decomposes over time.

 

[Byron]

I always seem to be "expanding" on things, and here is another. I have a natural tendency to want to explain in detail, which hopefully doesn't cause more confusion than it solves.

Blackwater is a bit more extensive than what Ch4rlie mentioned. The Rio Negro river, the seventh-largest tributary of the Amazon River, is the largest blackwater river in the world, at a length of 2500 km (1550 miles). The Negro basin covers 700,000 km2 (270,300 square miles), an area larger than the size of France. This is indeed an immense blackwater river. There are hundreds of other blackwater streams and creeks throughout Amazonia, and in SE Asia. Some of these are so dark they resemble very strong tea. They are at the same time crystal clear. The Rio Negro is considered one of the cleanest natural waters in the world; on a clear sunny day, visibility underwater can exceed nine meters (30 feet).

The photo below shows one area where the Rio Negro flows into the Amazon, at the city of Manaus. The milky-white water on the left is the main channel of the Amazon, a whitewater river, and the dark water on the right is the Rio Negro as it meets the Amazon. The second photo shows how these two immense masses of water flow side-by-side for more than six kilometers before they begin to mix. This is because of the amount of water in each river and the massive strength they each carry, plus the temperature difference (the Solimoes (Amazon) is 22 C, while the Rio Negro is 28 C) and the density of the waters. Robert Meade, who spent decades studying these rivers for the U.S. Geological Survey, described it thus: “Put in terms of the sheer quantities of water, what we are seeing here is a volume of water at least a dozen times greater than the total of the water falling over the Niagara, Iguassu, and Victoria Falls combined.”

The third photo is one of the Rio Negro's Igapo, the Brazilian term for flooded forest. The tea-coloured water is distinctive of shallower blackwaters. There is very little to no suspended particulate matter in blackwater, the opposite of white water which is cloudy due to the immense amount of sediment and particulate matter it carries.

The pH of blackwaters is usually below 5.0, and can often be in the 3's and 4's. The GH and KH is basically zero. Yet there are some 700 species of fish that live in the Rio Negro, of which some 100 species are found no where else on earth.

Byron.

 

[NickAu]

I always seem to be "expanding" on things, and here is another. I have a natural tendency to want to explain in detail,

Personally I see that as a good thing and read every word. Thanks.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Great pics Byron.
Is that where the coffee comes from hahaha

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G925F met Tapatalk

 

[Ch4rlie]

Thats a very good explaination given by Byron, with a couple of cool pictures

He makes one very important point, as I briefly mentioned earlier, the pH levels in these waters are very low, this reminded me of someone who actually got wild altum angels from natural blackwaters and the pH of that area was usually found to be around pH 4. His well water had a pH of around 6.0.

So he had to lower his water to pH of 4 through with a great deal of knowledge and researched theories from very knowledgable scientists and experienced keepers. So therefore he had to acclimitise these altums over many months to get them to adapt to a pH of 6.

Over the years he was very successful and managed to breed these altum angels, no mean feat.

All of that was done through sheer hard work, researched knowledge and asking many reliable and knowledgeabe folks over time for the best methods and theories.

So replicating blackwater simply using Alder Cones and IAL does not mean you can have wild fish from those natural blackwaters (which incidently would be very expensive fish) in your tank/s, the usual LFS or breeder tank bred fish species is probably the best course of action.

 

[Byron]

As you mention altum angels (here we go again), this video from Amazonas may be of interest. It is episode 4 of a series on Ted Judy's trip to Colombia to fish waters and examine one exporter. It details the export process for altum angels, and Ted suggests that acclimation is likely where these fish fail to make it, primarily because of the parameters. The tank pH is 3.15, the city tap water is 6.5, these are mixed in the shipping bag resulting in a pH of 3.38--and that is how the fish arrive locally. GH and KH are of course zero in all these waters. The collecting trips and the fish farm bit in the prior episodes (linked on the site) may also be of interest. Enjoy.