Zebra And Leopard Danios + Common Goldfish

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Awesomefish

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About a month ago I set up a 35l/9gal tank and after beggining the cycle detailed in the instruction manual and generally sorting it all out, I introduced a common goldfish a little over 2". Today I bought 3 zebra danios and 2 leopard danios to join him, and I'm confident they're too big for the goldfish to swallow. The thing is I've just got them in there and the goldfish does tend to... Chase them around a little, though they're too fast for him. Is this safe? Should he calm down after a little while? He's only been on his own for about a month, so I don't think he's become territorial.

Some general feeding advice would be helpful as well. Thank you!
 
Before anyone else tells you; the tank is too small for the goldfish; they can easily grow to 12inched in length. Danios as far as I am aware are nippy fish and may nip at your goldfishes tail. If the goldfish is chasing the danios I suggest you move one of them.
 
That's a little worrying, but I've heard from a few people that goldfish grow to different sizes depending on their tank and that plenty of people keep goldfish in small tanks. Are you really sure about this?
 
Personally, i've never had 'nippy' danios, but I have had 'bothersome' danios that keep harrasing larger fish and tiring them out.

But yeah, I've seen a goldfish choking on a young danio (both died unfortunately) - but then again I've also seen 'fancy' goldfish (e.g. lionheads, orandas etc) living in tropical community setups for years quite happily. the 'true(ish)' form goldfish, comets and the like, will get large, the fancies (due to their spine curvature etc.) don't get any where near as big, but they do get very bulky over time. I've seen ones about 9 inches long, but round like a football!

So there you are... probably best to re-house it, but no need to do it 'immediatly' goldfish grow fairly slowly on standard flake diets.

goldfish grow to different sizes depending on their tank and that plenty of people keep goldfish in small tanks. Are you really sure about this?
--- wowser i missed this bit, that is unfortunately an absolute myth, the only organism that ever happens in, is in plands and fungi, and even then, only to a certaine extent. The easy way to think of it is this: I'f you put a baby shark into a fish tank, do you end up with a cool 'mini' shark? or If I put you in a tiny room, do I end up with a 'mini' human? No, same applies to goldfish :D
 
>nurglespuss

Thanks! It's been a couple of hours and I am happy to report that the resident goldfish has lost interest. If he starts to look too big for his tank, I'll invest in something larger. Same goes for if his fins look as if they've been nipped at.
 
That's a little worrying, but I've heard from a few people that goldfish grow to different sizes depending on their tank and that plenty of people keep goldfish in small tanks. Are you really sure about this?

Yes, we are sure.

Goldfish are one of the most abused species in the hobby. They have been traditionally subjected to poor living conditions, low/non-existent filtration and small tanks/bowls. Most pet goldfish only reach 2-3 inches and live for a few months or even a couple of years. This is so routine and so many people are totally oblivious of the need to research their pets that this is how most goldfish are kept. Most people, including some experienced fishkeepers and pet shop workers, will tell you that goldfish will grow to the size of their tank and don't need much care.

The goldfish lowdown:

Goldfish have a natural lifespan of between 10 and 30 years, depending on variety
Fancy goldfish typically grow to between 6 and 10 inches, depending on variety
Single tailed goldfish (commons, comets, shubunkins, etc) grow to between 10 and 24 inches, depending on variety
Goldfish produce a truly stunning amount of poo and require double the filtration that one would expect
The smallest (6 inch) adult goldfish should be kept in a 3 foot tank of at least 20 gallons, with room for upgrades if it grows
A large goldfish (12 inch) should be kept in a 6 foot tank or pond - larger fish (over 12 inches) need ponds unless you can cope with a 10-12 foot tank.
Fancy goldfish are only suitable for ponds on warm climates or the summer.
Goldfish require filters and most varieties want a high level of flow in the tank to simulate their natural environment
Goldfish need a lot of oxygen in the water and this should be provided by ensuring the surface of the water is always moving
Small tanks and poor water conditions will affect the growth of the fish, from slowing it to stopping it altogether - this is catastropic for the fish and will contribute to an early and painful demise.
Goldfish are social, boisterous fish that should be kept in groups and not housed with other fish if possible
Single tailed goldfish prefer cold temperatures, ideally under 20 C
Fancies like sub-tropical temps of 20-24 C or so
Single tailed goldfish can easily damage the more delicate fancies and shouldn't be housed with them
Goldfish require a diet high in vegetable matter (plants, algae, veggies) but will also appreciate live/frozen foods (such as bloodworms)
Fancy goldfish are prone to constipation (which can cause swimbladder and death) and should be fed sinking goldfish pellets and will benefit from cooked, deshelled and chopped peas every so often.
Goldfish will eat small fish if they can catch them and they will grow big enough to eat danios

A lot of information about a fish that most people think can be put in a bowl.

A 9 gallon tank isn't even really suitable for the danios, tbh, as these little guys get to 2.5 inches, require shoals of at last 6 per species (so you'd need to have 12 danios) and are highly active. They're also renowned fin-nippers and you may find your goldfish's tail gets shorter. A group of 6 danios should have at least 15 imperial gallons and 12 would need at least 20. Contrary to fish shop advice, they are not suitable for small tanks.

I would recommend you either rehome the fish or get a larger tank. The 9 gallon could be used for a micro-community of tropical fish, some small coldwater fish (ask for recommendations) or something more interesting like a betta or pair of dwarf puffers (both tropical).

Welcome to the world of fishkeeping :fun:

>nurglespuss

Thanks! It's been a couple of hours and I am happy to report that the resident goldfish has lost interest. If he starts to look too big for his tank, I'll invest in something larger. Same goes for if his fins look as if they've been nipped at.

Thing is, he won't start "to look too big". If he gets stunted, which is very likely in such a small tank, he will stay at a neat 2-4 inches. And die.

He needs to be in a tank big enough for him to grow and he needs it ASAP. He should reach his adult size within two years and be most of the way there after 9-12 months.

I've never understood why people are so keen to wait for the damage to be done (and it is damage - even nipped fins are a wound, however trivial it seems) before they are willing to change something. The number of times I've heard "I'm keeping a male and female betta together - I'll seperate them if they fight" or "I'm keeping chinese algae eaters with fancy goldfish, I'll move them if I see them sucking their slime", etc. How about "I'm keeping a fighting dog around my 2 year old kid, I'll sell it if the kid gets bitten" . . .
 
Assaye said it all!!!

to do anything but listen to his wonderfully put advice would be nothing but animal cruelty.
you wouldn't keep a Chihuahua in a shoe box, would you?


the "grows to the size of the tank" means stunting - -the fish cannot physically grow in its environment, so the spine deteriorates and bends, the internal organs become compressed and the fish dies from stress, starvation and internal organ failure. . . not a very nice way to die, don't you agree?


also, you set up the tank and added the fish at the same time? you need to research tank cycling immediately!


take back the goldfish and possibly the danios, get a larger tank, research and do a fish LESS cycle, plan a stocking, then buy some fish :good:
 
Assaye said it all!!!

to do anything but listen to his wonderfully put advice would be nothing but animal cruelty.
you wouldn't keep a Chihuahua in a shoe box, would you?


the "grows to the size of the tank" means stunting - -the fish cannot physically grow in its environment, so the spine deteriorates and bends, the internal organs become compressed and the fish dies from stress, starvation and internal organ failure. . . not a very nice way to die, don't you agree?


also, you set up the tank and added the fish at the same time? you need to research tank cycling immediately!


take back the goldfish and possibly the danios, get a larger tank, research and do a fish LESS cycle, plan a stocking, then buy some fish :good:

*She :lol:

There is some debate about exactly why stunting kills fish - I think the organ compression idea has largely been refuted. However, the facts remain that goldfish DO get stunted and DO die an early death as a result.

I'll add the most useful link I have ever found - I can't remember how many times I've passed this on.

Ta-dah!
 
oh my, I am so sorry....SHE!
I always thought your picture was you hehe, my mistake!

Oh Goddess Of Fishkeeping! Let us all heed your advice :lol:
 
He should reach his adult size within two years and be most of the way there after 9-12 months.

This is more than a little skewed data wise, it takes a few years for goldfish to reach full size maturity, even in ponds/lakes.

Stunting may occur, but it takes time. Size constraints (unless directly physicall constrained on all sides) do not play an immediate role in stunting,its actually a reaction to chemical build up. Stunting of course will occur, or spine twists, internal prgan deformaties due to excess curvature etc. over time. However there is no immediate concern, the fish can be rehoused as soon as the owner finds a new tank but it doesnt have to be immediate.

As for danios being fin nippers.. I still have yet to witness this and have lept fish for more years that I care to remember.
 
He should reach his adult size within two years and be most of the way there after 9-12 months.

This is more than a little skewed data wise, it takes a few years for goldfish to reach full size maturity, even in ponds/lakes.

Stunting may occur, but it takes time. Size constraints (unless directly physicall constrained on all sides) do not play an immediate role in stunting,its actually a reaction to chemical build up. Stunting of course will occur, or spine twists, internal prgan deformaties due to excess curvature etc. over time. However there is no immediate concern, the fish can be rehoused as soon as the owner finds a new tank but it doesnt have to be immediate.

As for danios being fin nippers.. I still have yet to witness this and have lept fish for more years that I care to remember.

Ok, I should have said that they can reach an adult size after two years. If that makes sense? Like they might get to 18" when full grown but should have reached 12" or so after a couple of years . . . maybe all the goldies I have seen have been on growth hormones :crazy:

I know stunting is a response to hormones but in small tanks the risk if stuning is far greater due to the smaller volume of water. Even if the fish doesn't stunt, a small tank is still prone to toxin build up and doesn't provide the necessary space for stimulation and exercise.

In short, the OP needs a new tank and they need is ASAP.

As for the danios - my friend has had three bettas shredded by her school of danios. I keep tellin' her . . . good husbandry (enough space, appropriate tank mates, enough in the shoal, etc) makes nipping behaviours less likely. When I worked for a lfs, we found that newbies had the most problems with badly bahaved fish, usually because they only had say 3 danios or had a mixed group that were not as settled as a single shoal of one species would be. Our more experienced customers never had these problems and would laugh if we warned them about them.
 
I cycled it how the tank manufacturer said before putting any fish in, and the danios are shoaling fine and not bothering the resident goldfish at all thus far. 'Waiting until the damage is done' is really a 'seeing if something works before changing it' and I'm not sure what can be so bad about waiting to transfer a fish to a larger tank, particularly if its filter can more than deal with it. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound like I'm brushing off the wisdom of someone much, much more experienced, but don't you think your advice is a tad overzealous? I want the best for my slippery friends but all this 'safest bet' stuff isn't very affordable and I'd wager it's not essential to that degree. I don't have the money to buy a mammoth tank yet regardless.
 
Just google pictures of adult goldfish.....its ridiculous to wait and see....you wouldn't put a saint bernard puppy in a closet and wait to see if he grows too big would you?
 

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