Yes Cycling Again

[Ren&Stumpy]

I have been doing a fishless cycle since 15/09/08 on a RIO 400 and have just done a 12 hr ammonia test as i knew it was getting close. Oh by the way i added 4pots (the dose for my tank) of bactinettes from swallow aquatics 1 week into my cycle, it did honestly help a huge amount in getting things going.

Ammonia added at 1230pm 4/10/08 to 4ppm (which is what i have been using as it is a 20ml dose on the nose)
Ammonia at 0030 = 0ppm

Heres where the help/support is needed.

My nitrites are off the scale using a API test kit going purple as soon as test liquid added.

Now my ammonia is being proccessed inside 12hrs can/should i do a fairly large water change and then drop the ammonia input to 10ml (2ppm) to help the nitrite bacteria process the nitrite easier rather than a huge lump?

How long roughly would people say it will take until the tank is cycled from now? i know it has to be able to process both ammonia and nitrite to 0ppm in 12 hrs or less.

oh and another thing my Nitrate readings for my tap water i'm sure were 20ppm but i am getting readings of 5ppm from the cycling tank water any ideas? i have a piece of large bogwood and a couple pieces of mopani wood in there.

thanks for reading

 

[Irf]

I wouldn't change the water. You don't want too many things changing in the cycling system until the bacteria activity stabilises....

Irf.

 

[Brette]

My nitrites are off the scale using a API test kit going purple as soon as test liquid added.

Getting a piece of filter media (filter floss) from a well established tank can really help. It looks gross but has all the good bacteria in it to jump start your cycling.

 

[minxfishy]

Its usually a good thing to do in a fishless cycle to do a large 90% water change once the nitrites are so high, in fact sometimes it takes a couple of large water changes to get them down so you can even read the level on the chart. It certainly wont hurt the cycle.

As long as you re-charge with ammonia say to 3ppm after the water change to keep the cycle going, you should be fine, then once the ammonia and nitrite are processing in 12 hours, up the ammonia back to 5ppm for the last part of the cycle.

The bacteria is in the filter, not the water so as long as you keep the filter media wet during the water change, you wont lose any bacteria.

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

My nitrites are off the scale using a API test kit going purple as soon as test liquid added.

Getting a piece of filter media (filter floss) from a well established tank can really help. It looks gross but has all the good bacteria in it to jump start your cycling.

i have a biorb thats very well established could i cut out a section of the foam media from that filter system and place it in a tray of my external without effecting the biorb too much. i have a spare new filter for the biorb that i could cut to plug the gap

Its usually a good thing to do in a fishless cycle to do a large 90% water change once the nitrites are so high, in fact sometimes it takes a couple of large water changes to get them down so you can even read the level on the chart. It certainly wont hurt the cycle.

As long as you re-charge with ammonia say to 3ppm after the water change to keep the cycle going, you should be fine, then once the ammonia and nitrite are processing in 12 hours, up the ammonia back to 5ppm for the last part of the cycle.

The bacteria is in the filter, not the water so as long as you keep the filter media wet during the water change, you wont lose any bacteria.

i think i will do a fairly large change later today. it wont be until after the 24hr mark though will that effect the Abacs or are they hardy enough to go longer than 24hrs without ammonia?

 

[minxfishy]

As long as you give them a source of food fairly shortly afterwards, they will be fine, I often forget to recharge the ammonia on fishless cycles, I mean its approximate the time I put it in, so you should be fine.

Yep some of the mature media from the biorb might help a bit

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

well i had a look at the filter media in the biorb and found snail eggs and snails actually under the media so i decided not to use that in the new tank as i dont want snails.

I know the biorb has snails obviolsy but was hopin the media had stayed free of eggs.

looks like i will be waiting. added 10ml more of ammonia to keep the Abacs happy but keep the nitrite down

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

ok i decided to leave the water change for now maybe do one in the week.

I added half a dose of ammonia 10ml to take the tank to 2ppm at 1230 today. Just tested it at 2100 and its zero.

I should not dose again until 1230 tomorrow afternoon is that correct? i did the half dose to help control the nitrite build up now the tank can process 4ppm of ammonia inside 12 hrs.

Oh i dont finish work until 2pm that will be ok though wont it in terms of the Abacs as it will be over the 24hrs since a dose.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ok i shall fetch up a couple of links to read for you in a minute, but basically what you suggested initially is a good idea.

1ppm of ammonia is processed by the ABacs and this produces around 2.7ppm of nitrite, so once the ABacs start shooting through loads of ammonia each day and there's no or very little NBacs there the nitrite builds up very very quickly. Excessivley high levels of nitrite can actually inhibit the growth of the NBacs so while you need to keep feeding the ABacs with ammonia you also need to control the nitrite levels so it doesn't end up overkill.

To this end in the second phase of cycling we often recommend that people drop down ammonia to 2/3ppm each day, this will produce much less nitrite, you keep it at this level until the NBacs have got to a point where they are reasonably processing nitrite, there's no set point but say once you're getting to 0ppm nitrite in 24hrs. At this point you then start to ease the ammonia back up to 5ppm each day, the ABacs will very quickly catch back up.

At this point you can also do a number of water changes to control the nitrite level. Contrary to popular belief this seems to actually speed up cycling in this phase rather than slowing it down.


heres the first link about cycling

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...p;#entry2121904

and this one

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=226664&hl=

i think those will help you understand the cycling process a bit more fully.

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

Ok had a read through those and decided to do a water change 50% not easy on a 400L tank without a working hose at minute.

Before the change stats

Ammonia 0ppm (been that since 830 last night only a half dose 2ppm)
Nitrites 5+ppm (off scale basically turns dark purple soon as liquid hits tube water)

After Stats

Ammonia 2ppm (want to control Nitrite levels a bit)
Nitrites 2ppm ( got other half to confirm the reading)

Did not measure nitrates at this point in time.

I will test again in 12 hrs just before i go to work in morning.

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

Ok did my water test at 0500 this morning results are as follows for the 24hrs from water change to 1630 this evening.

6/10/08

Water Change 330pm 50%

10ML ammonia Added

Ammonia 2ppm
Nitrites 2 ppm (water change removed 3ppm)

2130

Ammo 0.5ppm
NitrIte 5ppm

7/10/08

0500

Ammo Not Tested (wanted to get nitrite reading knew this would be at 0)
NitrIte 2ppm

1630

Ammo (same as above)
NitrIte 0.25ppm
NitrAte 40ppm ( saw drop in NitrIte so tested nitrAte to make sure, Tap was 20ppm when tank filled at beginning of cycle on 15/09/08)

Added 10ml Ammo see what i get before work in morning, however it seems the water change really has helped things get going again.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

good stuff, water changes in this second phase definately do seem to give things a bit of a kick!

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

0500

Ammonia (not tested)
NirtIte 2ppm

risen and then fallen steadily in 12 hrs so again see what its at at the 24hr mark this evening. It feels like its getting close but have read so many times that it could do this for a while yet.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah this last phase is undoubtedly the most frustrating! It feels like it's just so close but takes it's time in finishing. Just stick with it though, you're nearly there!

 

[Ren&Stumpy]

yeah this last phase is undoubtedly the most frustrating! It feels like it's just so close but takes it's time in finishing. Just stick with it though, you're nearly there!

it really is cos you can see your fish in the tank at this stage as you have had so long to plan stock lol.

I saw some nice 3-4" clown loaches at aquatics centre yesterday i wanted them there and then but knew i couldnt. Same with some silver dollars they had.

Nearly test time again