Wounded Cichlid

[spartagus]

About a month and a half ago I got my first first cichlid tank. I did some research on my own, but talked a lot to the people at the fish store as well. They assured me that in a 30gal tank that's over filtered I could keep 8-9 small/medium sized African cichlids of varying species, so that's what I went with. They get along ok, except one is a huge bully. I've never seen them take a chunk out of each other. I've lost one so far, and replaced it, meaning that there are 9 in there right now, plus a Siamese Algae Eater.
This morning I noticed that one was looking pretty scuffed up. I don't know if the other fish did it, or if she scraped herself on some broken pots I have in their tank. I plan on replacing the broken pots with non-broken pots.
I believe she's an electric yellow? I have her in a separate tank now. There are crappy pictures below of her injuries.
What can I do to make her more comfortable/help her get better? Is there any hope? I've always kept more "hearty" fish, cichlids were my first delve into more complicated fish keeping.
I'm really worried that my tank is overstocked, but they told me (I was going back and forth between two different stores) that any other way would result in more fighting. It's really only one fish that is a jerk, the others seem almost mellow. Like I said, I've never seen them bite each other, just chase.

This is the tank (it currently has 3 broken pots and a cave not pictured):

Any help you guys could offer on how to make her better(what should I add to the water? I'm a bit nervous because it is a divided tank, but the betta could stand some mild antibiotics, I think, as he too was just moved out of a tank where his SAE suddenly (after three years of peaceful cohabitation!) started bossing him around.

Thank you SO much!


oh and as for tank specs of the original tank:
30gal
Aqua Clear 70 filter
tank temp low 80s
fed 1x a day cichlid sticks
on a 12hour light cycle
ammonia=0
ph=somewhere between 8 and 8.5

 

[char la]

hi spartagus.
Im afraid you've been the victim of some bad advice. Im sure the stores you went to tried their best but, as you've experienced, it could have been better.
The yellow lab you have has definatly been battered by one of the other cichlids. Mbunas need to be kept in large numbers to spread the aggression round. Fewer numbers means more aggression place on each individual fish. You need a lot more fish than just 8 or 9, preferably about 15 in that tank. But then you really need to watch your water quality. Really you should have a tank of at least 200 litres for mbuna, with plenty of rock work for them to hide in if they experience bullying.
Also the fish with the two black spots on its side, although being a fish from africa, it is actually from the congo not from the rift lakes. Its a Jewel cichlid and shouldnt have been sold to you to go into a malawi set up. They do not live in the same water parameters.
Treat the yellow lab with a anti bacterial and a anti fungus to stop secondary infections. Esha 2000 is a good product as is Melafix and Primafix used in conjunction.
In the tank size you have you would have much better luck with small tanganikans and a few beautiful aulonocaras. Much better suited and much less aggressive!
Hope this helps

 

[spartagus]

Thank you. Unfortunately, I have the fish, so I have to make do...it's been too long to take them back. I can keep the yellow lab in the separate tank, but what about the rest of them? I cannot possibly afford another tank, financially or space-wise. I don't know their species but I can post pictures if necessary. Would it make more sense to heal the yellow lab, and then put her back and remove the aggressor to a separate tank?
I'm treating her with Furan-2, which is an antibacterial and anti-fungus, I believe. She's swimming around and seems more chipper away from the others. If she is permanently in 5gallons (will be 10 once the old Betta dies, but that could be a month or 2 years) should I get her company - another of her breed? Or will she be ok alone?

 

[Faythee]

Melafix does wonders on wounds. Highly recommended. Wouldn't hurt to use some aquarium salt as well.

Is the Jewel the bully ? I would remove the bully and return it to the store. Typically Africans are kept in a 4 ft. long tank, unless they are the less aggressive such as Tanganikans as said above.

The yellow wouldn't be happy all alone. Makes more sense to remove the bully. You could add more decor, including plants to the 30 gallon to make the fish feel more safe and comfortable.

 

[char la]

If you do want to keep them then i would definatly buy some more. If you dont the most dominant one in the tank will work his way through the others. The yellow lab can go back into the tank when he's/she's better but that will be a few weeks yet. You also need to add some hiding places in the tank as well, the more the better. The most placid mbunas are yellow labs (Labidochromis caeruleus), Pseudotropheus acei, Rusty cichlids (Lodotropheus sprengerae), Pseudotropheus socolofi. Try to stay away from any Metraclima species and try to keep the patterns and colourations of the fish as different as possible. That way they wont perceive each other as competition or mating partners.
If you put pictures up of the fish you have im sure myself and others on here would be able to identify them for you. Its much easier if you know what youve already got in your tank.

 

[spartagus]

They didn't have Melafix, instead I was recommended the other stuff.
No, the Jewel is pretty placid. They all get along well, the Bumblebee very occasionally chases someone if they get too close. The only one that I ever see bullying is the fish pictured below...although I'm sure if he were removed another fish would step up to take his role?
I'm a bit weary to get more fish, because as they grow bigger that means a tank upgrade. I have no space for another tank, especially one of that size...I have one already and it takes up almost an entire section of wall (it houses a turtle who can't be downgraded to the 30, so I can't switch them). I'm also on a bit of a tight budget right now, out of work for two more weeks. I can afford maybe one or two more fish at this point.

The aggressor is this guy:

In there I have:

Jewel

Bumblebee

Marble Peacock

Electric Blue Johanni

These guys
(This one gets darker)

and of course the Lab that was in there.


I really, really appreciate the help. The pet store is clearing out their old silk plants for cheap, I'm going to go buy as many as I can and some new clay pots...take the silly decorations out of there to make room for more practical ones.

 

[char la]

You have definatly been sold a strange combination of fish! lol
The one you call bumblebee isnt a bumblebee which would be a crabo, its a male Metraclima lombardoi.
The aggressor looks to me like a zebra. You will always have one fish more dominant than everyone and yes, if you do remove him another will take his place, which would most likely be the lombardoi.
The peacock is a open water hap, an Aulonocara sp. To soft really to be kept with aggressive mbunas. Same applies for the silver one with the central black line. Thats a female protomelas sp. Theyve really had you there with that one because male protomelas are stunning and a lot of shops get stuck with just females.

You really need to add more fish, even just some nice cheap mbunas. Youve definatly got room for more. I know it can be hard when your skint, but it can also be a waste of money when you lose the fish through aggression. Ask around your local aquatics stores if theyve got any cheap mbunas. I know we're always adopting cichlids and if they cant be identified or are crosses we sell them a lot cheaper. You can even haggle some places down because if theyve adopted them, they havent payed anything for them.

 

[Faythee]

When the injured one is ready to return to the tank, remove ALL the decor, put the Yellow back in, then rescape the tank completely different. This will start the claiming of territory all over again. This doesn't always work....but has for me a few times.

 

[spartagus]

I don't care about the female protomelas sp, she's my favorite! Always playing with the gravel

I will go talk to the actual fish store, instead of the pet store, tomorrow and see what they can do for me...not a lot, most likely, as their cichlids are really $$ compared to the pet store's. They sell them by size, rather than breed, at all the stores I've been too-which means about $14 a fish at the pet stores and almost $30 at the fish store.
I am REALLY impressed with the meds I bought. After just 12 hours all the fuzz( bacteria or fungus, I'm guessing) from her cuts are gone and they look a lot better, it says to do 4 treatments, 24 hours apart so I'll be excited to see what the end of 4 days brings. If she still needs meds after that I'll track down some melafix.

The rearranging is a good idea, thanks. I am going to go rearrange now anyway, get some more plants and hides in there. They seem to be a bit quieter now that the one being beat on is out of there.

edit:I've put a whole lot of hides in there and plants...they are all busy trying to find a spot. I think the problem was (or, rather, one of them) that I didn't have enough hides! Hopefully now that everyone has their own space they'll chill out a bit. I will still go to the store tomorrow and see about picking up two or so more fish.
Should I be looking for a specific aggression level?

 

[didz04]

The jewel cichlid you have whats its full name or scientific name if anyone knows? I have a pair and looks like they are pairing up as they are showing some breeding behaviors and red & orange colours coming out they look really nice. I also need to find out more info about them as i don't know how big they get.

It will be best to try and stock 1:3 (male:female) as this will cut down aggression and you should get some more yellow labs in there and if you want, they are easy to breed so be ready for a fry tank or if not ready then keep temp low.

Your yellow Malawi cichlids (you have named bumblebee) looks quite skinny compared to mine, so just one tip of advice when you get cichlids you need to stock more than you think to keep aggression low as I know its been said, but also you need to make sure that every cichlid and other fish will get enough food. Since you will be stocking more you need to make sure that they all do eat properly and its best to feed them 3-5 times a day to make the tank more healthy and better for the cichlids. Keep changing foods around each feed from bloodworm, brine shrimp, dafnia and to more beefy foods to fill them up quicker so they have a more healthier diet. They can also eat cucumber and broccoli and you could just attach it to something like a rock to make it easier for them to eat.

How is your lab doing?

How

 

[spartagus]

Honestly the pet store is crap with male/female, and I have no idea myself...I just go with the idea that the females are more bland than the males? I'll talk to someone useful, I hope!
I'm hesitant to put yellow labs in, because they are really meek, and don't want a repeat--plus last time I was at the store all they had were tiny ones. I'll have to see what they have, but I have a feeling I'll end up with the ones labeled "Assorted" - ie a bunch of bland looking females that cost the same as the fancy looking males. But, anything to even the tank out!
I was told to feed them just pellets, but I have some blood worms that I'll start working in for them. Maybe I'll do 2 feeds a day, one cichlid pellets the other blood worms and throw in the cucumber whenever I think of it. I have been giving them a lot of food every morning, but 2 feeds is a good plan (I can't do more than that, once I start working)
Are leafy greens ok to give them?

The lab is doing great! She seems really active, I gave her a hide, plus another plant, and she seems to be as content as she can be for having no company and healing from wounds. The wounds look to be clearing up, not quickly but decently. It'll be re-growing the tail that will take a while.

 

[char la]

NOOOOO!!! DONT GIVE THEM BLOODWORM! Big no no! Mbunas need lots of veg and algae in their diet. Feed them a dried food specifically created for african cichlids. May i highly recommend New Era African Cichlid pellets. Mix with a protein pellet for the open water haps such as Hikari Cichlid Gold. Once or twice a week give them frozen krill or mysis with deshelled garden peas or a piece of cucumber.
Cichlid bellies should always be flat. Never bulging or sunken. Feeding once a day is fine. The right diet is far more important than how often they get fed.

On the subject of the Jewels, there's about 4 different jewel species, you'd have to get someone who's well up on their jewel species to identify them, but they're probably more than likely Hemichromis bimaculatus.

As for Yellow labs, they're not soft. They are softer then some of the other species of mbuna but they're not soft. You'll be surprised when you put him/her back when none of the other fish pay much attention to him/her. Ive had fish fights in my tank before (when i housed more mbuna) where ive had to separate one to heal. Once healed and introduced back into the tank no one batted an eyelid at it.

 

[char la]

Your tank looks much better now, bet they're loving it!
When you get more fish stay away from the male sex of a species call Melanochromis Auratus. Females are ok, but males are NASTY! The females are the best looking anyway.
I find it unusual that over there (America?) shops sell them by the size because here they're definatly by the breed! Suppose it just shows that the same aquarium mistakes happen all over the world!
Just out of interest how much did you pay for the yellow lab and what length is it???

 

[Faythee]

I'm in the USA and your typical Africans, medium size, go for about $7 USD including the Yellow Labs.

I started out with the Labs as I thought they were less aggressive. NOT ! Bully picked on the Peacock and other Labs. They were all forced to the top of the tank. I ended up re-homing them and getting the Tanganikans.

 

[didz04]

You cant feed them any bloodworms??? I have been feeding them mainly bloodworms and brine shrimp I used to feed them cichlid pellets but lately they have ran out. I asked most lfs and they all said feeding them bloodworm is fine and they also deop in a cube of bloodworms into the cichlid tanks. So whats the best food to feed them, just cichlid pellets?

I have a yellow lab with my african cichlids and they are fine and he gets a long fine with them. He has had fights with the johanni cichlid but always attacks back but never has come out with any ripped fins. I'm sure its a male so maybe it could be the females that arn't as aggressive and are not best to be kept with them unless the tank is over stocked.