Wobbly Male Guppy

[flix_cw]

Hi there, if it's not my females dying of camallanus it's now my male with something else!

He's navy blue in colour, but i've just got back from uni and noticed he's now gone sort of grey, although his colour hasn't changed, it's like a cataract over his whole body which makes me think it's the velvet 'dust'. His beautiful tail also has a split, and his left pectoral fin has shrivelled up so he's swimming in circles.

This is very sudden since i watch my fish tank constantly, and he's been showing no symptoms until i got back today. I left him last night doing what he's been doing the last few days, just swimming against the current of the filter outlet, that might have been an early clue? Come to think of it, while i'm reading up on velvet signs, he has been doing the odd 'flick' off of plants.

He doesn't get bullied in the slightest and has been eating well.

I don't have a second tank for quaranteen due to my student budget I have containers, but no second heater.

Tank size: 28L
pH: 7.6
ammonia: 0.0
nitrite: 0.0
nitrate: 5.0
kH:
gH:
tank temp: 23 degrees C

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 30% every 5 days.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Undergravel filter (cycled).

Tank inhabitants: 2 Male guppies, 6 zebra danios and 3 cherry shrimp (over-stocked i know, occurred before joining this forum but there are regular water changes and tests)

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): None.

Exposure to chemicals: None.

Digital photo (include if possible):

 

[WILDER]

Have you treated for the camallanous worms.

Grey colouring can be bacterial, parasites, bad water quality.

Any signs of darting, erratic swimmng, flicking and rubbing, laboured breathing, or gasping, excess mucas on the fish body or gills.
What do the gills look like.

Your tanks overstocked.

 

[flix_cw]

for the time being, i've upped the temperature to 26 deg (hope the danios can take it), tunred off the lights and dosed the tank with StressCoat (futile, i know). I'm at a loss if i have to treat with copper because of my shrimp.

I'm well aware my tank's over-stocked.

Frequent water changes, tests always come back zero for ammonia and nitrites.

And yes, he used to flick/rub occasionally, as stated above. His swimming is slightly erratic and laboured, all coming from his caudal fin now since one pec fin is shrivelled.

His gills look normal, as is his resp rate. No redness or swelling. No excess mucus.

 

[WILDER]

If he's showing no signs of parasite symtoms I would issolate him and try a bacterial med.

Swimming in circles can be the fish is dying, swim bladder, brain infection or damage, parasites, bacterial, toxins, ph shock.

 

[flix_cw]

as i said, i have no QT tank. i have some large containers but no extra heaters.

Is there a temporary set up i can offer him?

 

[WILDER]

Sorry.

If there no signs of parasites I would add a bacterial med to the tank.
But to be honest the fish sounds in a bad way.
Is he struggling to stay balanced in the water with his fins be shrivelled up.

Velvet will look like a dusting of talc on a fish, golden yellow spots, a gold dusting, or a rusty coloured varnish.
Best way to see if a fish has velvet is turn tanks light out, then shine a torch on fish for golden spots, or gold dust.

 

[flix_cw]

I've only got Anti-Internal med annoyingly.

Hmmm well he looks like he's covered in GREY dust, not rusty gold. And with lights out and a torch, nothing.

He's still very active and not completely in circles, he has control of direction. It's just that one fin that's hindering his movement.

Would it be worth using the internal med or should i pop out and look for an 'external' one?

 

[WILDER]

What med did you use for camallanous worms.
As camalanous worms cause damage to the organs, and spinning can be due to parasites causing brain damage.
Once you have wormed fish you are meant to back up with a bacterial med.

Need to know if you treated for camallanous worms.

You need an internal wormer for camallanous worms.
What is your location.

 

[WILDER]

Camallanus



Symptoms:

When the fish is stationary, deep red worms can be seen protruding from the anal pore. They are only visible when the fish is still because the worms retreat into the intestine at the fish�s slightest movement. Other signs may include an inflamed and enlarged anus. In severe infestations, the fish may become emaciated and spinal curvature may also occur.



Cause:

The parasitic worms Camallanus Cotti and Camallanus lacustris. These small, livebearing parasitic worms attach to the intestinal walls and rectum with pinchers. The worm�s grip is so tight that any attempts to remove it forcibly will rip away tissue from the intestinal wall. The worm�s pinching causes ischemia (reduced blood flow) to that part of the intestine. In time, the tissue to that part of the intestine will die, at which time the worm will migrate to another part of the intestine. This causes perforations throughout the intestine, which allows other pathogens to gain entry. If the fish is not treated, either the parasite or bacterial will kill the fish. Camallanus infestations occur most often in livebearing fish such as Guppies and Mollies, though infection is possible in all fish. Camallanus infestations are contagious. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium, should be treated.



Treatment:

Treat with Internal Parasite Guard, Pipzine, Disco-Worm, Trichlorfon or Fluke-Tabs as well as a medicated food to prevent a bacterial infection.

 

[flix_cw]

Yes i treated for the worms with Sera Nematol then backed up with the anti-internal. I supplied that close-up pic of the worms you asked if you could use a few weeks back. Somehow my shrimps survived but i don't want to put them through anything more.

I don't think i properly described the swimming trouble. It's not literally circles, it's more one sided swimming due to the shrivelled left pectoral fin he now has. Definitely not indicating neurological issues. It's just uneven, slightly clumsy swimming, coupled with a thin grey dusty layer over his head and dorsal aspect.

I'm from London by the way!

 

[WILDER]

Did you redose the sera med.
Have the fish put on weight since using the med.

Add esha 2000, or anti internal bacteria med by interpet, or myxazin by waterlife.

 

[flix_cw]

The only fish showing symptoms died before the meds arrived. But i treated the tank (twice) nonetheless and then followed up with Interpet's anti-internal.

Shall i put the anti-internal in again?

 

[WILDER]

Yes. Add the anti internal bacteria med by interpet.
Let me know how he gets on if you don't mind.
Good Luck.

 

[flix_cw]

thanks so much for those quick replies Wilder!

I'll get on it right away.

 

[flix_cw]

Just found him dead

He was absolutely fine only 36 hours ago.

My zebra nerite seems to have shrivelled up too and is half in/out of the water on the glass at the surface. Can't see my shrimp anywhere.

Interpet no.9 says NOTHING about avoiding use with invertebrates, this didn't happen last time!