Will my water pass the lfs's tests?

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Dear Phantom Thief

And as to certain species of fish not liking fresh water, once again, absolute crap. As long as the pH, kH and temperature are the same or similar, even the fussiest of fish wouldn't dislike it.

Ah, thats what I like to see........
I am glad to see that CFC has put you right on this one!

Obviously tap water has no ammonia. Obviously it's not waiting there to kill the fish. Obviously, it's the fish itself which is producing the ammonia and nitrite to kill it. Sure, putting only a small number of fish won't make the ammonia go through the roof, but there will still be a noticable amount of it. Are you saying it won't hurt the fish?
Erm, think you have contradicted yourself here!
If there is "a noticable ammout of it"(ammonia) where are you saying it has come from then? A couple of fish wont produce that much ammonia to have "a noticable ammount of it". Any ammonia is a noticable ammount if you want to go that far! And nitrite is a by product from the breakdown of ammonia.
The idea is not to make the ammonia go through the roof if the fish are in there!
I recon you bin adding too many glasses of that poison you keep harping on about to yours to yours. In no instance am I saying ammonia, nitrite (and not forgetting nitrate) will not harm the fish. I have seen new and mature tanks suffering from the symptoms of both in the past. Have you ever heard of a product called AMMO LOCK? I have heard reports of this being good in emergencies. Where do you buy your ammonia from? I have never seen it for sale in any fish shops.
Adding too few fishes would simply make whatever bacteria is there already starve due to the lack of a source of ammonia.
The trouble is your not accurate with this statement either.
There is not any of the "good" bacteria in the filter in the first place so how can it die. That is the point of the cycling! Gradually increasing the ammount of fish means that at the start the bacteria grows a little. Then gradually increasing the ammount of fish means that the bacteria colony can brow at the same pace.
I would like you to explain what you think I would be subjecting the fish to when I put them in a tank with treated tap water (declorinated, decloramined and stood for a few days) and some aged water. Dont tell me you think there will be HIGH AMMONIA because with sparce feeding and nothing else producing waste it wont get high!
As for adding aged water to prevent the bacteria from dying from "fresh water", that is absolute crap. The aged water would not have any ammonia and nitrite, because all of it should be processed already by the bacteria already present.
I stand corrected on this one. I must be imagining there is bacteria present in there like you did on the last quote I put in this post of yours.
Erm, excuse me, what do you mean by "fresh water"?
When I say fresh water I should have been more specific. I was refering to straight untreated tap water. And incase YOU did not know washing filter media under the tap WILL kill good bacteria.
Yes, the bacteria can and will colonise a filter run on an older tank.
Well thats one thing we can agree on then!
Incidently are you and slyspy related (or the same person) you are both seem to have an obsesion with poisoning.
 
fishman 1,

Fishless cycling is highly effective at establishing the necessary bacteria colony and is faster (and obviously less cruel) than using fish. While somewhat new, it is a common and widely accepted method to cycle a tank now. I have cycled 2 different tanks in ~3 weeks with this method and was able to fully stock each tank much sooner than if I had used fish.

Hope that helps clear things up... :thumbs:
 
Dear modernhamlet,

As far as I know this method is not practiced currently in the UK. I will enquire when I visit some of the aquatic shops I regularly visit and give some feedback.

I have never had it where the ammonia gets high through cycling with fish. However I have had higher than trace nitrite at 1.0 which is low as far as the scale goes. Not very good I know but it leveled out after a couple of days and neither of the 4 rainbows suffered any ill effects. These specimens lived happily in the tank for 6 years

Thanks
Dave
 
I'm a relative newbie, having only had tanks up and running for about 3-4 months now, but have now successfully set up 3 tanks with the loss only of 3 oto's, 1 jumping bristlenose and 1 mystery dissappearance of a tiger barb. I cycled all of these with ammonia solution, and all have been running stably since they were set up. I 100% think that if you can cycle a tank in two to three weeks or maybe even less without causing unneccesary suffering to any fish then its got to be the right way to do it.
The first tank i set up (15gal) took about 3 weeks in total to cycle from a completely new setup. The second one (30g), i added some filter media and 2 buckets of water from the old tank and it was cycled in about 12 days. The third one, a 20g, i ran the new filter in the 30g tank for 4 days then added to the newly set up 20g, along with 2 buckets of water from the 30g, and it fully cycled in 7 days!
I can only comment from my experience, but using the filter in the existing tank definitely seemed to work as this drastically reduced the cycle time.
As for the water from the mature tank, i dont know. Cant hurt though can it, unless nitrates are massively high in it, and it would only go down the sink otherwise anyway. Before adding fish i did water changes to make sure nitrates were at an acceptable level anyhow.
 
ferrikins said:
jay2jay99 said:
I haven't added any ammonia, just a product called cycle.
CYCLE DOES'NT WORK

sorry did'nt mean to shout, just felt shouting is the only way to get through.

you may think it is, but it does'nt trust me. The only thing that does Bio Spar (sp), and that not avalible in the UK.

PLEASE stop listening to you LFS, there say anything to cover there backs.

I garrente you will have to Cycle you tank with fish, and they will most likely all die.
I like it, i cant stand it when people "beat around the bush"!! just say whats gotta be said and say it with pride man. 2, yes 2 lfs bent me over and severly rogered my wallet before i found out what a cycle REALLY was. luckily a few of my fish survived, such as my silvershark, neons, and a cory, i lost a lot of innocent lives and money to these "specialist" shops that will only turn any argument around on the customer. use ammonia and run the tank as stated in the cycle posts or get some very hardy fish, black mollys for example and let the levels rise and fall for at least a month
 
The first tank i set up (15gal) took about 3 weeks in total to cycle from a completely new setup. The second one (30g), i added some filter media and 2 buckets of water from the old tank and it was cycled in about 12 days. The third one, a 20g, i ran the new filter in the 30g tank for 4 days then added to the newly set up 20g, along with 2 buckets of water from the 30g, and it fully cycled in 7 days!

I find this interesting.

with the loss only of 3 oto's, 1 jumping bristlenose and 1 mystery dissappearance of a tiger barb

Which tank did they live in before they died?

I can only comment from my experience, but using the filter in the existing tank definitely seemed to work as this drastically reduced the cycle time.

As expected.

As for the water from the mature tank, i dont know. Cant hurt though can it, unless nitrates are massively high in it, and it would only go down the sink otherwise anyway.

Unless high in ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

With reference to the octocinclus deaths I have found them to prefer a more mature tank as they do seem to be delicate with the water conditions. The octo. affinis and vittatus and paraoctocinclus species all have the similar requirements. Maybe if you had used more water from the mature tank you might not of lost them.

I 100% think that if you can cycle a tank in two to three weeks or maybe even less without causing unneccesary suffering to any fish then its got to be the right way to do it.

I totally agree with this statement. My way (no added amonia) doesnt harm the fish I have nor cause suffering. I did not loose any of mine either when I cycled with fish.
 

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