Why We Should Not Fishless Cycle Planted Tanks.

[Geoff1991]

Where are you looking?

my guess is the distortion, looks a bit like a spiral.

Hm, doesnt resemble a bubble counter or diffuser to me but whatever...

Also, my external diffuser came today, i love it.

 

[baron von bubba]

hmmm, i agree with the other guys!
that is a bit of a sweeping statement. its different strokes for different folks...................
if you want a high maintenance tank that NEEDS constant monitoring, trimming/replanting and a large ammount of cash chucked at it then fair enough.

I use to pay 60 for the florish not including the plant food, not including Trace etc...., use to last me 6months 2nd biggest one my closest pet shop has in stock all the time.... sometimes had to special order it,
Co2 Canister 45 bucks filled first time, then the regulator is the expensive part no lie on that one, 150bucks i got one for, last 6 months and costs 15 to refill. so over the course of 2-3 years it pays for itself in the long run now depends where you are are located cause more expensive or even cheaper depending where you are.
2 Bottles a year at 120 x 3 years = 360
Reg 150, Tank 45 and filled, 15 per refill at 3 = 3 years x 30 2 refills a year = 90 + 150 + 45 = 285, now as the years go by the savings add up. So not really an expensive setup.

i bought 3 disposable bottles before i went to a fire extinguisher, they cost £30 each and they lasted 2 wks each!

so while you are correct in part, when using dry ferts and "cheap" co2 it can be cheaper, it still is a fairly substantial outlay tho! and if it was gonna be done with "shop bought" co2/ferts then it doesn`t bare thinking about................................
and yes co2 ONLY pays for itself when you compare against the cost of the liquid co2 supplements, but not compared to not having added co2.............:0/
dont forget the large filtration/flow plus the higher lighting most ppl use along with co2

i guess you have a small tank also??
obviously as tank size increases so do the costs.

 

[OneOnion]

I have a five gallon tank(with no fish in it), and I wanted to know how many plants I need to make it that I don't have to cycle? I'm planning on getting 5 at the least, 10 at the most, is like 7 or so good enough in a 5 gallon tank so that I won't have to cycle? Thanks.

 

[aaronnorth]

I have a five gallon tank(with no fish in it), and I wanted to know how many plants I need to make it that I don't have to cycle? I'm planning on getting 5 at the least, 10 at the most, is like 7 or so good enough in a 5 gallon tank so that I won't have to cycle? Thanks.

quote from the original post:

PLANTING LEVELS
For the inexperienced, getting planting levels right, along with non limiting CO2 throughout the tank are really key to the early success of the tank. Insufficient plant mass and/or CO2 will limit/inhibit plant growth, and open the door to algae blooms. For the inexperienced I would recommend the advice I was first given, which was to plant 75% of the substrate with fast growing stems. This will provide a large ammonia processing factory, and algae blooms will be suppressed by a healthy mass of fast growing plants. With more experience it is possible to start a tank with a lot less plant mass, but this will also require a lot more knowledge of controlling light intensity and photoperiod duration. Lighting is a whole other subject that is covered elsewhere, as are dosing methods.

 

[OneOnion]

I have a five gallon tank(with no fish in it), and I wanted to know how many plants I need to make it that I don't have to cycle? I'm planning on getting 5 at the least, 10 at the most, is like 7 or so good enough in a 5 gallon tank so that I won't have to cycle? Thanks.

quote from the original post:

PLANTING LEVELS
For the inexperienced, getting planting levels right, along with non limiting CO2 throughout the tank are really key to the early success of the tank. Insufficient plant mass and/or CO2 will limit/inhibit plant growth, and open the door to algae blooms. For the inexperienced I would recommend the advice I was first given, which was to plant 75% of the substrate with fast growing stems. This will provide a large ammonia processing factory, and algae blooms will be suppressed by a healthy mass of fast growing plants. With more experience it is possible to start a tank with a lot less plant mass, but this will also require a lot more knowledge of controlling light intensity and photoperiod duration. Lighting is a whole other subject that is covered elsewhere, as are dosing methods.

Oh. Sorry.

 

[theshadowinc]

i bought 3 disposable bottles before i went to a fire extinguisher, they cost £30 each and they lasted 2 wks each!
so while you are correct in part, when using dry ferts and "cheap" co2 it can be cheaper, it still is a fairly substantial outlay tho! and if it was gonna be done with "shop bought" co2/ferts then it doesn`t bare thinking about................................
and yes co2 ONLY pays for itself when you compare against the cost of the liquid co2 supplements, but not compared to not having added co2.............:0/
dont forget the large filtration/flow plus the higher lighting most ppl use along with co2

having plants survive still need to have high end flow as u say plants love flow!, lighting is another subject, normally u are only adding the co2 to the water common 30 ppm because u use ei dosage with high lighting to control algue tis is what my setup is! I could name many plants that would not grow in a tank without co2 they would just die!
Rotala Macrandra is one that requires strong lighting could put it in my tank and not worry about it, requires co2, these are requirements for this plant thats just one example, i have a plant right now in my aquarium and need to look the name up, it requires lots of co2 to grow and lots of light wish i could remember thename of the plant.
But co2 is in everyones tank no matter what looking at about 3-5ppm because of the water splashing disturbing the surface, simular to how a pond work, to complicated for me to get into i only have 1 hand to type with.

i guess you have a small tank also??
obviously as tank size increases so do the costs.

not small at all 55gal home to discus check my setup in my signature!

 

[lljdma06]

I forgot about this and some of it's a bit off topic, but the discussion was very useful so I won't touch it. It also has a pretty picture of my tank in it, so all's good. Time to display it, though, and let Dave Spencer's topic bask in the glory of pindom, before I park it at PARC permanently.

llj

 

[aaronnorth]

having plants survive still need to have high end flow as u say plants love flow!, lighting is another subject, normally u are only adding the co2 to the water common 30 ppm because u use ei dosage with high lighting to control algue tis is what my setup is! I could name many plants that would not grow in a tank without co2 they would just die!
Rotala Macrandra is one that requires strong lighting could put it in my tank and not worry about it, requires co2, these are requirements for this plant thats just one example, i have a plant right now in my aquarium and need to look the name up, it requires lots of co2 to grow and lots of light wish i could remember thename of the plant.
But co2 is in everyones tank no matter what looking at about 3-5ppm because of the water splashing disturbing the surface, simular to how a pond work, to complicated for me to get into i only have 1 hand to type with.

It has actually been proven on many occasions that "high light" plants such as rotala macranda can survive in 1wpg, providing there is CO2 injection & sufficient nutrients available, it is a technique many are adpating too, because there is no need for 3wpg+

Andy actually did an experiment on R.Macranda
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=258855&hl=

as you can see it did grow under 0.9wpg

and you can see some PAR values on ADA tanks too
http/www.barrreport.com/general-plant-to...s-who-knew.html

With the lower lighting, CO2 & nutrients become much more easier to control,

Thanks, Aaron

 

[Geoff1991]

Bit untidy/cloudy and iphone came makes the colour funny, but are my planting levels sufficient for a silent cycle?

Planning on stocking with 6 harlequin rasbora, 6 sterbai corys and amano shrimp (maybe cherry shrimp as well) how would i go out adding these? All at once or gradual?

 

[aaronnorth]

looks good to me, add 6 fish per week (max). You can add more shrimp because they dont add much to the overall bioload of the tank

 

[Geoff1991]

Ok thanks, Im going to give it a couple of weeks to give the HC that im going to plant time to root before the corys go digging it all up...

 

[SuperColey1]

Rotala Macrandra is one that requires strong lighting could put it in my tank and not worry about it, requires co2, these are requirements for this plant thats just one example

Indeed as Aaron says this plant will do fine under low light as will most 'supposed' high light plants. With the highlight theories now truly blown out of the water on the barrreport where a single T5HO tube is supplying enough PAR for carpeting (approx 50 at substrate and 150ish at the water surface) I am now onto working on getting 'high CO2' plants to grow in non CO2 tanks.

The problem people have is that they bang on about 3WPG. What they don't see is that you don't need 3WPG unless it is badly positioned. If we use standard T8s (lesser PAR per tube/less intensity) we need more tubes. That is good because then we can get the 50/150 PAR all over the tank by spreading them further apart and this also eliminates a lot of shading.

What we should look at rather than the amount of light over the tank is the amount of light at the substrate. More lights spaced means that areas that were shaded and therefore may not have grown something now will because the light suddenly becomes available.

Also the higher the CO2 is the lower you can go with the lighting because the plant uses less energy from gleaning CO2 and can spend it utilising the light better.

I am currently testing HC (which even I have said is a CO2 lover and not high light lover) in a non CO2 relatively low light Nano. Watch this space. Maybe another 'theory' about to go BOOM

AC

 

[Geoff1991]

More questions,

When i add fish, what should i be doing in the way of water changes?

 

[aaronnorth]

50% daily, if possible. But definatley a minimum of 2 x 50% per week.

 

[Geoff1991]

Ah right, isnt that similar to what would be done for a fish-in cycle?

And how long for do you think?