Which Of These Gourami Has Smallest Mouth & Is Least Aggro?

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Jeremy180

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I've decided to stock my 29 Gal(12" x 30" footprint) with mostly "nano" freshwater fish + shrimp, and I'm looking for a single centerpiece fish that can be safely kept with them.
Chocolate Gourami Sphaerichthys osphromenoides
Honey Gourami Trichogaster Chuna
Something else?
 
My water hardnes is 39ppm as Caco3, according to my water company, and my Kh is about 1 degree, according to my test kit.
Potential tankmates will be all or some of the following:
Caridina and Neocaridina shrimp (haven't narrowed it down to species/variety yet.)
A school of about a dozen or so Boraras or similar sized species, the smaller the better. (optional)
A school of eight tailspot pygmy cory (C. hastatus)
A Few Ghost Shrimp
Either A school of 6 Threadfin rainbowfish or 8 Spotted Blueeyes, I'm leaning toward the latter.
A bamboo shrimp as a secondary centerpiece, to be added after the tank has been running over a year.
If the tank has any room left (which I doubt) a school of pygmy hatchetfish.
 
Well, according to LiveAquaria
 
Chocolate Gouramis (Very beautiful btw) like a temperature of 75-86 degrees Fahrenheit  (i think 80 is pushing it), they also prefer a Kh of 2-4 and a pH of 6-7.5.
These guys only get about two and a half inches at maximum size. They are said to be difficult to keep, but require a minimum tank size of at least 30 gallons.
 
Honey Dwarf like a temperature of 72-82 degrees Fahrenheit, they perfer a Kh of 4-10 and a pH of 6-7.5 just like the chocolate. 
These guys only get about two inches at maximum size. They are also said to be difficult to keep, but only require a minimum tank size of at least 10 gallons. 
 
 
So, in my opinion, unless you have very fast moving fish or another gourami, any gourami you choose should be peaceful and shouldn't cause aggression. I don't know how well they'll get along with the rainbow fish, though. I don't think there would be a problem between those two species? But since your Kh is more right for the chocolate gourami, I would say go with the chocolate. They're very pretty as well, more than the honey, I'd say. 
 
There will be some important issues with the fish mentioned in post #1, and they are not all compatible.  I will try to explain.
 
First, combining gourami species is always a risk, much as combining cichlids, and for the same reasons.  I won't get into that, but move directly to the Chocolate Gourami.  This species has some very specific requirements that absolutely must be met; think discus, only even more so.  I have kept and spawned them, two of the four species.  The most common is Sphaerichthys osphromenoides (the one you mention) and I also had O. selatanensis which is identical in patterning except it has an horizontal creamy mid-band unlike the former species.  Requirements are identical whichever species.  Although the Honey is generally peaceful, for a gourami, it is still likely to cause stress for the chocolates so I really would not mix them; there are some other small gourami species that can work, but not this one.
 
Fish acquired will most likely be wild caught, and they inhabit peat swamps and blackwater streams in very densely forested areas of Sumatra and Borneo.  Your very soft water is perfect.  Warmth is crucial, no less than 80F, and never let the tank cool.  This is one of those cases where water changes must use water as warm as the tank (normally slightly cooler water is good but not here).  These fish are highly prone to skin infections, velvet and other parasites, and protozoan, and poor water conditions are nearly always the cause.  Stress from inappropriate tankmates and/or the environment are also factors.
 
Plant the tank as thickly as possible, and have a complete cover of floating plants.  Ceratopteris cornuta (Water Sprite) floating is ideal, but any other similar plants will work.  I had the lower tank planted with crypts and Wisteria (Hygrophyla difformis) and allowed the latter to grow along the surface in some areas, and this provided another ideal floater, though the lower leavers tend to die off when the tops of the stems are allowed to grow this much in the light.  Chunks of wood are also good, both for authentic decor but also the release of vital tannins.  Dried leaves would be good.  Light has to be subdued, so lower plants that can manage (like some of the crypts), or just the wood, is best.
 
This species is best in a small group, with a mix of male and female.  Males are, like all gourami, territorial, but in sufficient space injury is not likely to result, and the normal on-going interaction between males is one of the joys of keeping this species.  And with females present, they will readily spawn if conditions are to their liking, and being a mouthbrooder (female here) some fry will survive among the floating plants.
 
A 29g like you mention is the smallest tank I would suggest for the chocolates, and a group of 6-8.  Tankmates are possible, though many recommend against it, but I found that the small rasbora species worked.  Boraras species as you mention are fine, but in a larger group, at least 15.  These will tend to remain among the floating vegetation.  My chocolates, and I had six adults, did not bother the Boraras.  The smallest of the "Harlequin" species, Trigonostigma hengeli, can also work but not with the Boraras in this small a tank.  I had all these in a 4-foot 70g, along with a small group of pygmy sparkling gourami, but I would not include another gourami here.
 
Threadfin rainbowfish might be worth trying, a group of 8-10.  My only concern would be the tank size, as this affects the behaviour of many fish and I am not sure how these two might react.  But if you have another tank possible in case, it may well be worth trying.  The blue-eyes, I am not sure which species...Brevibora dorsiocellata perhaps?  If yes, these can work, though again the tank space is limited, and the temperature is pushing things.
 
I would not include the pygmy hatchetfish here; it needs some open surface, plus I am not sure how the chocolates would react to a fish in their space (the surface) so continually.  Corys like those mentioned would work, except they cannot tolerate this warmth; 75-76F is max for the "dwarf" species.  
 
One suitable bottom fish would be the banded dwarf loach (not the regular "dwarf" loach), Micronemacheilus cruciatus.  This is a very nice fish, quite quiet for a loach, and I have had success with it in similar tanks.
 
Hope this is of some help, feel free to question anything.  I'll attach a photo of the 70g to illustrate the sort of planting you want.
 
Byron.
 

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RainboWBacoN420 said:
Well, according to LiveAquaria
 
Chocolate Gouramis (Very beautiful btw) like a temperature of 75-86 degrees Fahrenheit  (i think 80 is pushing it), they also prefer a Kh of 2-4 and a pH of 6-7.5.
These guys only get about two and a half inches at maximum size. They are said to be difficult to keep, but require a minimum tank size of at least 30 gallons.
 
Honey Dwarf like a temperature of 72-82 degrees Fahrenheit, they perfer a Kh of 4-10 and a pH of 6-7.5 just like the chocolate. 
These guys only get about two inches at maximum size. They are also said to be difficult to keep, but only require a minimum tank size of at least 10 gallons. 
 
 
So, in my opinion, unless you have very fast moving fish or another gourami, any gourami you choose should be peaceful and shouldn't cause aggression. I don't know how well they'll get along with the rainbow fish, though. I don't think there would be a problem between those two species? But since your Kh is more right for the chocolate gourami, I would say go with the chocolate. They're very pretty as well, more than the honey, I'd say. 
 
 
Byron said:
 
There will be some important issues with the fish mentioned in post #1, and they are not all compatible.  I will try to explain.
 
First, combining gourami species is always a risk, much as combining cichlids, and for the same reasons.  I won't get into that, but move directly to the Chocolate Gourami.  This species has some very specific requirements that absolutely must be met; think discus, only even more so.  I have kept and spawned them, two of the four species.  The most common is Sphaerichthys osphromenoides (the one you mention) and I also had O. selatanensis which is identical in patterning except it has an horizontal creamy mid-band unlike the former species.  Requirements are identical whichever species.  Although the Honey is generally peaceful, for a gourami, it is still likely to cause stress for the chocolates so I really would not mix them; there are some other small gourami species that can work, but not this one.
 
Fish acquired will most likely be wild caught, and they inhabit peat swamps and blackwater streams in very densely forested areas of Sumatra and Borneo.  Your very soft water is perfect.  Warmth is crucial, no less than 80F, and never let the tank cool.  This is one of those cases where water changes must use water as warm as the tank (normally slightly cooler water is good but not here).  These fish are highly prone to skin infections, velvet and other parasites, and protozoan, and poor water conditions are nearly always the cause.  Stress from inappropriate tankmates and/or the environment are also factors.
 
Plant the tank as thickly as possible, and have a complete cover of floating plants.  Ceratopteris cornuta (Water Sprite) floating is ideal, but any other similar plants will work.  I had the lower tank planted with crypts and Wisteria (Hygrophyla difformis) and allowed the latter to grow along the surface in some areas, and this provided another ideal floater, though the lower leavers tend to die off when the tops of the stems are allowed to grow this much in the light.  Chunks of wood are also good, both for authentic decor but also the release of vital tannins.  Dried leaves would be good.  Light has to be subdued, so lower plants that can manage (like some of the crypts), or just the wood, is best.
 
This species is best in a small group, with a mix of male and female.  Males are, like all gourami, territorial, but in sufficient space injury is not likely to result, and the normal on-going interaction between males is one of the joys of keeping this species.  And with females present, they will readily spawn if conditions are to their liking, and being a mouthbrooder (female here) some fry will survive among the floating plants.
 
A 29g like you mention is the smallest tank I would suggest for the chocolates, and a group of 6-8.  Tankmates are possible, though many recommend against it, but I found that the small rasbora species worked.  Boraras species as you mention are fine, but in a larger group, at least 15.  These will tend to remain among the floating vegetation.  My chocolates, and I had six adults, did not bother the Boraras.  The smallest of the "Harlequin" species, Trigonostigma hengeli, can also work but not with the Boraras in this small a tank.  I had all these in a 4-foot 70g, along with a small group of pygmy sparkling gourami, but I would not include another gourami here.
 
Threadfin rainbowfish might be worth trying, a group of 8-10.  My only concern would be the tank size, as this affects the behaviour of many fish and I am not sure how these two might react.  But if you have another tank possible in case, it may well be worth trying.  The blue-eyes, I am not sure which species...Brevibora dorsiocellata perhaps?  If yes, these can work, though again the tank space is limited, and the temperature is pushing things.
 
I would not include the pygmy hatchetfish here; it needs some open surface, plus I am not sure how the chocolates would react to a fish in their space (the surface) so continually.  Corys like those mentioned would work, except they cannot tolerate this warmth; 75-76F is max for the "dwarf" species.  
 
One suitable bottom fish would be the banded dwarf loach (not the regular "dwarf" loach), Micronemacheilus cruciatus.  This is a very nice fish, quite quiet for a loach, and I have had success with it in similar tanks.
 
Hope this is of some help, feel free to question anything.  I'll attach a photo of the 70g to illustrate the sort of planting you want.
 
Byron.
 
I apologize for the confusion, The gourami I was asking about was an either/or option, not both.
I really was planning this tank to be on the cooler side (around 77f/ 25c) ,so that leaves out the chocolates for sure.
I've read on several websites now that state that Honeys are fairly safe with adult shrimp, but will still eat babies (as will practically any fish other than ottos, farlowwella, etc.) Does this sound correct?
Other than the high temperatures, the tank descrbed by byron is fairly similar to what I'm trying for.
What are the coolest temps you would recommend keeping Honey gourami at?
Also, if the boraras need very warm temperatures as well, I may use neon tetras instead, or another (preferably smaller) species of schooling fish.
 The biggest problem I'm having is trying to convince my sister that guppies are a poor choice for our water...
She has expressed interest in the longfin neons, however, so maybe I can make some headway with that option.
Oh, incidentally, the blue eye I'm looking at is pseudumigil gertrudae
 
I apologize for the confusion, The gourami I was asking about was an either/or option, not both.
I really was planning this tank to be on the cooler side (around 77f/ 25c) ,so that leaves out the chocolates for sure.
I've read on several websites now that state that Honeys are fairly safe with adult shrimp, but will still eat babies (as will practically any fish other than ottos, farlowwella, etc.) Does this sound correct?
Other than the high temperatures, the tank descrbed by byron is fairly similar to what I'm trying for.
What are the coolest temps you would recommend keeping Honey gourami at?
Also, if the boraras need very warm temperatures as well, I may use neon tetras instead, or another (preferably smaller) species of schooling fish.
 The biggest problem I'm having is trying to convince my sister that guppies are a poor choice for our water...
She has expressed interest in the longfin neons, however, so maybe I can make some headway with that option.
Oh, incidentally, the blue eye I'm looking at is pseudumigil gertrudae
 
 
The Honey Gourami has a range of 22-27C/72-82F.  As with most ranges given on reliable sites, they represent the likely limits at which the fish should manage, but the low and high is basically short-term.  The middle of the range is where the fish will likely be most comfortable, which means less stress and better health.  The warmer the water, the harder the fish's physiology has to operate just to keep things on an even keel, and this wears down the fish, etc.  A few degrees variance is normally fine, so here I would suggest somewhere in the 24.5-25.5C/76-78F range.
 
Boraras species are fine in the range of 25-28C/77-82F.  I have maintained shoals of B. brigittae and B. maculatus (not together, individually) in a tank at 78F for several years each.  So these temperature wise are OK with the Honey Gourami.
 
Neons are cooler water fish, with a range approximately 20-25C/68-78F.  So I would keep these closer to 24C/75-76F for their long-term health.  So these too could work with the Honey.
 
Pseudomugil gertrudae is usually recommended on its own, or with similar-sized fish for various reasons.  More here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pseudomugil-gertrudae/
 
Photo attached is another SE Asian habitat suitable to all these fish.  This is my 33g SE Asian Lagoon that is home to Boraras brigittae, Trigonostigma hengeli, Brevibora dorsicellata, Trichopsis pumila, Micronemacheilus cruciatus and Ambastaia sidthimunki.  Temperature is 26C/77F.
 
Byron.
 

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I feel the need to elaborate a bit on my temperature situation.
While my heater is currently set to come on at 24c (about 75 F), the ambient temperature in the house will be about 78-79f (26c) or maybe even a bit higher in the summer, and I've .read that aquariums often go a couple degrees higher than the ambient
Would it be worth it to invest in a cooling fan if I get the neons, and if so, is there a particular brand/model that you would recommend?
Thank you for all the advice.
smile.png
 
Jeremy180 said:
I feel the need to elaborate a bit on my temperature situation.
While my heater is currently set to come on at 24c (about 75 F), the ambient temperature in the house will be about 78-79f (26c) or maybe even a bit higher in the summer, and I've .read that aquariums often go a couple degrees higher than the ambient
Would it be worth it to invest in a cooling fan if I get the neons, and if so, is there a particular brand/model that you would recommend?
Thank you for all the advice.
smile.png
 
The aquarium will certainly not be cooler than the ambient room temperature and I would assume pretty much the same as the room temperature (it takes longer for water to change temperature as you undoubtedly know) provided there are no other influences.  Tank lights will heat the upper water some when they are on.  Canister filters can add a very small amount of heat.
 
I fortunately have more temperate temperatures, cooler in winter, so I need to heat the fish room to 70F and the tanks have heaters to keep them somewhere in the mid to upper 70's.  In summer when the room temperature will easily be 90F and even close to 100F (it is SW facing, and unshaded at that end of the house) I use a portable air conditioner which is able to keep the room around 80F on the warmest days, and obviously the tanks remain around this, lowering at night.
 
There are chillers made for aquaria, but I have never had to look into this, so I can't offer much advice.
 

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