Which Fish To Choose?

[jackkikz]

The time has almost come where i can actually buy some fish after doing a fishless cycle, and i have drawn up a shortlist of fish i would like for my 165 litre, soon to be planted tank. I am not actually going to get all these fish it will probably overstock my tank and some of them are probably fairly hard to get hold of, and im not planning on dumping them all in at once, its more of an aim over the next few months.

I was thinking of getting these fish:

Some Sparkling Gourami/ Pygmy Gourami
Some Coral Red Pencilfish
A couple of Zebra Oto and/or Fin Blotch Cory Cat
A few Bolivian Rams
A couple of Kribnsisses (dont know plural!)
A couple of Pearl Gourami and/or Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami
A few Steel Blue Killifish
A few Black Mollies
A Betta
Possibly a couple of Swordtails

Does anyone know of any compatibility issues here and does anyone have any suggestions for different fish? Especially the corys/otos/catfish as im not sure which ones to buy and i dont want them to be very big.

Also which ones do you think i should add first?

Thanks guys, Jack.

 

[The young one]

If you want to get Kribs only get a pair. If you get 3 or more some will get ripped to shreds. Also instead of neon blue dwarf maybe just some dwarfs, neons are harder to keep and need very good water conditions. I think a betta may feel intimidated, i have a male in my 200l and he is always hiding, hoping to move him to a 15 gal. I have a female betta though and she is always out and about, I'm hoping to get more females as they do better in a group of 5 or more. The gouramis would be a good choice as the first fish.
Good Luck

 

[OldMan47]

Hi there Jack.

As much as I like my livebearers, I would ditch the swordtails and mollies. The rest of the fish need completely different water than they do so I am sure you would not want to give up most of the rest to make those two comfortable.

A better way to think about things is to look at the type of water you get from your tap. Is it hard or soft? Is it high , low or near neutral pH? Does it have a lot of nitrates in it when it comes out of the tap, mine does. Once you know what water you have, you need to decide how much work you are willing to do to change the water to something else. It is usually best to find fish that are suited to your water than try to adjust the water to your fish. I have a fair grasp of water chemistry because of the industry I work in but I don't like to change it from what comes out of the tap.

If you find that you have high pH and hard water, many of the fish on your list will survive but not thrive in your tap water. What is it about the sparkling gourami that you like? If it is the iridescent flashy skin on them, how about some Xenotoca eiseni for a hard water tank. Is there a similar fish, in the terms of what you like, that would fit your water parameters? What do you like about the mollies? If it is the black color and energetic swimming and you have soft water, how about black neons instead? This will result in you having a good selection that fits the water you can easily get and use. What that really means is that you won't need to learn much about controlling diseases in your fish because they won't get sick and you won't need to learn all the tricks about moving pH and water hardness around because your fish and water will be a good match.

 

[ellena]

As I understand it, once you have done a fishless cycle, you need to add all your stock at once. If you don't, there won't be enough food to keep your bacteria colony alive and you'll end up with a mini fish-in cycle each time you add more stock.

 

[indigoj]

"Some Sparkling Gourami/ Pygmy Gourami
Some Coral Red Pencilfish
A couple of Zebra Oto and/or Fin Blotch Cory Cat
A few Bolivian Rams
A couple of Kribnsisses (dont know plural!)
A couple of Pearl Gourami and/or Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami
A few Steel Blue Killifish
A few Black Mollies
A Betta
Possibly a couple of Swordtails"

Sparkling Gourami need soft acidic water and are quite small, I don't think they would cope well with the much bigger fish you are planning. I used to keep 10 in with khuli loaches, peppered cories and clown killifish.

Zebra Otos are quite hard to find and like other otos tend to need a fully mature tank (6 months+ minimum)

I'd go for either 1 pair of Rams or 1 pair of Kribensis but not both, in my experience Kribs get very territorial and aggressive when breeding.4. Personally I leave Dwarf Gourami well alone but the Pearls are a nice fish.

I would also ditch the livebearers unless you really love them.

Betta probably not a good idea better in a tank alone.

I'd be cautious about mixing gourami.

 

[jackkikz]

Thanks guys, is what ellena said correct, it makes sense, but i've read that adding them all can also be risky. Also, i will be very lucky to go to my local fish store and them have all the fish i want in that one store.

Its a real shame about the sparkling gourami and the black mollies as i really liked these ones. Also, indigoj, why would you leave dwarf gourami well alone? Do they fight or something or are they just hard to keep? Most websites seem to say they are peaceful and suitable for a community tank.

Which small bottomfeeders would you recommend as im not sure about these ones, i dont really find bottomfeeders particularly attractive fish but i need fish to go at the bottom of the tank to balance it out and also to eat any algae.

Thanks, Jack.

 

[indigoj]

Hiya, I just think dwarf Gourami are too inbred and weak fish, there are equally nice fish out there that are not over bred or messed with too much, like the pearl gourami or the naturally coloured thick lipped gourami (not the awful red ones!)

In a 165l I'd add a bristlenose plec and either 5 or 6 corys or 5 zebra loaches.

Do bear in mind though that bottom dwellers will eat a bit of algae but they need their own proper diet too.

The only sure fire way to get rid of algae is to do it yourself with scraper and sponge.

 

[meguro]

Blue panaque L239 and botia kubotai.

 

[indigoj]

Blue panaque L239 and botia kubotai.

Not for a newly cycled tank.

 

[Forestpisces]

I really dont think a betta is a good idea in that tank and heavily advise against it. They prefer to be mostly alone with the odd one accepting the company of bottom dwellers, snails (although these are commonly eaten) or ADFs. Id hate for you to un intentionally cause suffering to a fish.

Good luck with the set-up and have fun!!

 

[OldMan47]

Do you have a water profile to help guide our advice? I have kept sparkling gouramis in a tank with fairly hard water and with Xenotaenia resolanae which have a rather rough reputation. The sparkling gouramis are doing fine but I have never seen them try to breed in my water. I think my water is really too hard for them. I love my mollies but would only try them in a hard water environment. Some of my favorite community tank fish are the nice Betta splendens that I keep a single one of in my community 120 gallon and another single one who lives with my endlers in a 10 gallon. The 120 gallon also houses 7 rainbow cichlids that are about 5 inches long and very heavy bodied fish. A betta is not the delicate flower that betta people would have you believe. I would be cautious about mixing gouramis with other gouramis but I am not an expert on gouramis at all, I am a livebearer person at heart.

A simple picture of what is a rainbow cichlid, most people haven't run into them so may not know what I mean.

They live with my mollies, a betta male, some platies a few gold barbs, a couple of black neons and 4 angels. There are also cories and a few other fish in the tank. My community tank has whatever appeals to me at the moment in it, not a well chosen mix although I usually make sure they don't have conflicts or need special care before I bring them home.

 

[waterdrop]

As I understand it, once you have done a fishless cycle, you need to add all your stock at once. If you don't, there won't be enough food to keep your bacteria colony alive and you'll end up with a mini fish-in cycle each time you add more stock.

No, this is not a good way to think about it. While a good 5ppm fishless cycle *allows* you to fully stock, its rarely done in practice and the benefits of a good solid 5ppm fishless cycling are not all about stocking size by any means.

If you think about it, there's really no choice about whether to have your bacterial colonies be -bigger- than your initial stocking or -smaller- than your initial stocking, is there? You *always* want the colonies to be too big and to drop downwards to match whatever the initial stocking size is. Rather than think of that as "wasting" some of your colony size, its much better to think of it as you having maximized the "robustness" or "toughness" of your colonies prior to stocking. The more they are free to "drop down" to meet your stocking size, the less likely you are to suffer mini-cycles during the first 6 months of tank life, when in fact your tank overall is still quite immature and is continuing to become a better tank for the fish. Its really only out there at about 6 months that a tank is reaching its peak of perfection as a tropical fish environment and then only if you've continued to give it first class maintenance.

Also, these nice big robust colonies you acheive by a good 5ppm fishless cycle with a qualifying week are the sort of colonies that will take new fish additions in stride. As long as you don't go overboard and keep your new introductions pretty small and reasonable, there should be hardly a blip in the stats as they quickly adjust to the fish increase. Most fishkeepers wait a couple weeks minimum between fish introductions. Not only does this allow the biofilter to adjust but it also allows the fishkeeper to observe the behavior changes the addition has brought.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[meguro]

bacteria are life too

 

[OldMan47]

That is absolutely correct Meguro. We often focus on the fish but even the bacteria in our filters are indeed life in our tanks. The idea is to set up a situation where everything works well together for the health of all the life in the tank includng the fish and plants. That is where we usually focus our attention.

 

[jackkikz]

Again thanks for your help, i will take everyones ideas and suggestions into account when i get my fish. As my list is fairly specific, does anyone know which website is better for quality, aquaticlifedirect.co.uk/ or directtropicals.co.uk/?

Ooh and Oldman47 i really like those rainbow cichlids, they look great! Unfortunately neither of the websites have them so i cant get them, unless they are called a different name or they happen to be at my lfs, although i doubt the latter.

Cheers, Jack.