Where Did I Go Wrong?

[erin7669]

Back story: went to pet store to buy a new beta fish. Ended up walking out with a Baby Biorb Kit a black molly, a bubble eye goldfish and a Betta. The employee told me; beta was fine to put in with the goldfish, and that I could go home and just fill up the tank according to instructions, acclimatize fish and all would be well. Within 24 hrs I removed the betta because he picked on the other fish ( popping one of the bubbles on the bubble eye and picking at his fins ) ... but he seemed ok, both eating and swimming. About one week after set up, the bubble eye and molly had white spots, I assumed it was ich from the stress ( but could have been fungus or infection from being picked at ). The bubble eye was starting to act strange and would wedge himself in the plants and not move... so I went to the pet store the next day and was told to buy some aquarium salt and the Biorb First Aid Kit. So I did that, following the instructions. Within a few hrs the bubble eye was dead ( this was last evening ) and this morning the molly was dead. Today I brought the water to be checked and was told it had a PH about 7.6, slight ammonia and something else ( forget now ). I spoke to another employee who appeared knowledgable, he said to do a 50% water change, and that should correct the issue and to leave the first aid kit in the tank as it wouldn't hurt. I came home with a new little lion head and a molly. I changed the water while noticing it smelled VERY chemically. I added a little more salt and acclimatized the new fish. I left the house shortly after adding them and came home 2 hours later to the lion head on the top laying on his side and the molly at the bottom barely breathing. I scooped them out, put fresh tap water and water treatment in a jug and put them in after a few minutes... The fish are now a little perkier, but I have no idea what to do ! They can't live in a jug for long with no oxygen I don't trust the water in the biorb... help!

 

[Byron]

I will assume the "baby biorb kit" is a 4 gallon bowl aquarium?  What exactly is the "Biorb First Aid kit?"  I cannot find this on the biorb site.
 
The Betta on its own might manage in this aquarium, but the other fish definitely not, even alone.  Can you return them to the store?  There really is no other option.
 
Except for the advice to do a water change, it seems everything this store told you was wrong.
 
Byron.

 

[Ninjouzata]

None of those fish are suitable for the tank so I would stop trusting anything this LFS says. The water change was good though.
 
I wouldn't want a betta in this tank even as biorbs have such little surface area.
The molly and fancy goldies you had require a 30g tank, minimum. Not a biorb though I don't think as they do need swimming room.
 
The molly and betta are also tropical fish while the goldfish are coldwater, so they should not be together.
 
I would return both the fish to the LFS if you can and do a fish-less cycle on the tank, if you intend to keep it that is. I personally would get something bigger.
HERE is the fish-less cycling article. You'll also want a source of ammonia which you can find HERE, as well as a liquid test kit. API is a popular brand for this. It should be available at most LFS but you can order it online too.
 
Here is what the API master test kit looks like:

 
You'll want that test kit regardless of if you're doing a fish-less cycle of fish-in, by the way. It may seem a little price-y but it's essential and lasts a long time.
Doing a fish-less cycle does take time but it's worth it for the health and safety of the fish. It will also give you time to find fish that would be suitable for your tank.

 

to TFF btw! Hope you enjoy it here.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I will assume the "baby biorb kit" is a 4 gallon bowl aquarium?  What exactly is the "Biorb First Aid kit?"  I cannot find this on the biorb site.

 
Yes, the 'baby biorb' is a 4 US gallon or 15 litre round bowl tank.
 
http/www.completeaquatics.co.uk/baby-biorb-silver-with-led-light?gclid=CK3348ey7sACFbPJtAodGjQAag
 
 
The 'first aid kit' i basically a small kit that contains filter media, glass cleaner, stress coat and declare sachets, waste of money imho.
 
http/www.amazon.co.uk/Reef-One-822728000816-BiOrb-First/dp/B000BVZGG6

 

[erin7669]

The shop is closed, the fish seem to be coming around a little ( aren't sideways now ). The shop is closed so I cannot return...  I thought for tonight I would empty the tank entirely ( maybe the medication was off or too strong? ) , add fresh water and water conditioner, and put the fish back in. If they die, then tomorrow I will likely return the tank and buy a bigger/better tank ( if they will take it back ) if not I will empty, buy a new filter set ( bc the first aid one is still in ) and do a week or so fish less cycle before adding a fish. The the fish in there is a Black moor ( not a molly as i previously stated. Oops ) . They are small, and I thought would be ok in that tank until they grew some and then I would upgrade. Sad . I used to be "into" fish, I had big tanks of cichlids and all sorts of neat fish, but its been about 12 or more years and I don't remember much of the rules. The biorb seemed like a easy set up for my little girls and it was pretty nice to look at...

 

[Ch4rlie]

Am sorry you're going through this at the moment.
 
A lot has changed with fish keeping since 12 years ago.
 
Best to ask first on this forum and slowly relearn your way around fish keeping again, it is well worth it and you'll soon get your heart set on this hobby once again
 
Some good advice already given above, particularly the fishless cycle article and water test kit, that would be the place to start imo.
 
But i would recommend you do take these guys back to LFS, or perhaps get a small cheaper 5 gallon tank and keep the betta in that whilst doing daily water changes and rehome the others and cycle the biorb tank in meantime.
 
A learning curve am afraid

 

[Ninjouzata]

I would return them in the morning since they're not suitable for the tank..for any length of time IMO. Goldfish are very, very messy.
 
Doing a fish-less cycle takes longer than a week unless you're using mature media and a bacteria supplement like Dr. Tim's One & Only.
 
I'm sorry you're having to deal with all this. I wish LFS would not do this to people but they do The good thing is that you came here though so you can help your fish.

 

[erin7669]

the two little guys I added today, appear as tho they have been burned? hard to describe, but when I put them in the tank today, they were bright, vigorous, clear eyes, within the two hours in the tank, they have what looks like a mucous coating on them and hang off ( very faint but you can see it up close ) they eyes are also slightly cloudy, plus acting like they were almost dead... they are only slightly better now ( after removing them from the tank water and placed in new water. I just emptied the tank entirely and let it run and placed them back in. If they are still alive tomorrow I will bring back and likely bring back the tank as it was sold to me under the impression I could put two goldfish and a beta in it. I just hope these two survive ... i feel so bad. I do suspect something was wrong with the first aid kit tho... is it possible the treatment was a bad batch? It smelled incredibly strong and all fish seemed to have died within hours of contact in it. thoughts?

 

[Byron]

Your description sounds like salt burns.  Salt was mentioned previously, and while it can be used to treat ich and certain other diseases, not all fish can handle it, but the burns would suggest too much was put in.  Likely more bad advice from the store.
 
If you can do major water changes, use only a water conditioner, forget the salt and the "first aid kit", you may save the fish.  Then return them.
 
BTW, if you don't mind mentioning it, where in Canada are you?  I'm in the Vancouver area, and just thought I might be able to help a bit more with water, stores, etc if you're out here.
 
Byron.

 

[AshleyNZ]

Seems like another case of the LFS giving such bad advice
 
A 4 gallon bowl isn't good for many fish at all, only snails and shrimps really. As has been stated, goldfish are poop machines, meaning they will add a lot of ammonia into the water, which could so serious damage to the fish themselves. I would do very frequent waterchanges until you can return them, just add a water conditioner to the water first, like Prime. 
 
Betta can be very aggressive towards tankmates - often killing them. Betta are warm water. Goldfish are cold water, and need alot of space. They just can't work together

 

[CherryBerry]

If you're having problems with the tank, I would say just empty out all the water, put new water in the tank that's been conditioned to remove the chlorine, and get the tank running for a few days or maybe even a few weeks.  Try to get the tank cycled, meaning give it time for the good bacteria to build up in it.  Bacteria supplement will help a little bit, but you still need time to let it cycle fully.  Let the filter run on it.  Let the filter run on it and just add in a tiny pellet of food every day to simulate the "waste" that fish will naturally produce.  Just a tiny tiny little bit of food to simulate amonia (the bacteria have to eat something!)
 
If you're talking about a 4 gallon, probably this would be a good sized tank for just a betta but nothing else.  After you've had the betta for a while though, you can try adding a snail or two, they can be a lot of fun and interesting to watch.  The betta will definitely leave the snails alone but might nip at them once or twice, but they'll be fine they hide in their shells.  In my opinion, I don't think you have to cycle a betta's tank for nearly as much as you have to cycle some other fish tanks, because let's face it: a 4 gallon tank is a big upgrade from the "cup" of water they get to swim in at the store!
 
If you want to keep some other fish you might need a little bigger tank, remember bigger is better!  I have a 6 gallon tank and a 28 gallon tank and I wish BOTH of them were bigger!
 
Anyways it seems to me what the problem was is that you got too many fish into the tank all at once, it stressed everyone out and they got sick because it wasn't cycled, and then probably just too much medicine and salt in the water which was doing weird things and shocking the fish.  Don't sweat it, I think we've all been there before, I definitely have, I lost a betta and a few tetras.
 
Comment and let us know what you're going to do, you got lots of people on here looking to help you out, and we'll get through this together!  Don't make any snap decisions, just let us know what's going on and there are plenty of people here to help you out.
 
 
To recap:  If you don't have any fish at the moment, I would clear the tank 100% of all the water, and put in new , clean, dechlorinated water (NO salt NO medicine) and let the tank sit for a few days or a few weeks with your filter on and just let the tank cycle (build up the good bacteria - do this by putting in the tiniest amount of fish food like 1/2 a pellet and maybe a dose of bottled bacteria).  After it's done that for a while, at least a few days, start very slowly by adding in a betta or whatever it is you were planning on adding.  For four gallon tank, that would make a great home for a betta.  I have my betta in a 6 gallon with a couple plants, and he has a couple snails and he does great.  

 

[Ninjouzata]

I'd recommend using actual ammonia over food which you cannot measure how much ammonia it would produce..not to mention you need to wait for it to break down.
 
A betta absolutely deserves a cycled tank just as much as any other fish.
It may be okay though to cycle the tank to just 1-2ppm instead of 3 since it will be just him, if you're using this tank for a betta that is. I still don't like the surface area but it is your choice. It does have a heater right?

 

[CherryBerry]

I'd recommend using actual ammonia over food which you cannot measure how much ammonia it would produce..not to mention you need to wait for it to break down.
 
A betta absolutely deserves a cycled tank just as much as any other fish.
It may be okay though to cycle the tank to just 1-2ppm instead of 3 since it will be just him, if you're using this tank for a betta that is. I still don't like the surface area but it is your choice. It does have a heater right?

 
You're right, ammonia would be better than food.  However, sometimes it's hard for people to get this ... I , for instance, have no idea where to get ammonia from.  Well... Other than myself, of course.  I'm guessing a hardware store?

 

[Ninjouzata]

 

I'd recommend using actual ammonia over food which you cannot measure how much ammonia it would produce..not to mention you need to wait for it to break down.
 
A betta absolutely deserves a cycled tank just as much as any other fish.
It may be okay though to cycle the tank to just 1-2ppm instead of 3 since it will be just him, if you're using this tank for a betta that is. I still don't like the surface area but it is your choice. It does have a heater right?

 
You're right, ammonia would be better than food.  However, sometimes it's hard for people to get this ... I , for instance, have no idea where to get ammonia from.  Well... Other than myself, of course.  I'm guessing a hardware store?
 

I understand if you have no choice just I think if you can get ammonia it's better. I hope I wasn't coming off as rude, just wanted to point out how it's hard to measure.
Yes, you can find it at a hardware store. Ace Hardware specifically