Whats The Difference Between Paties And Swordtails

[damianhucker]

the title might sound a stupid question but its puzzling me , i kust thought as far as xiphoporus go , if it has a sword its a swordtail if it doesnt its a platy . i only ask this cos i was just reading another thread where it referred to xiph . cortezi as platys , i personally bought a pair of these at an auction and at the mo ive not attempted to raise any fry from them as they are just in a community . i was always under the assumption this was a swordtail not a platy.

 

[dunchp]

the title might sound a stupid question but its puzzling me , i kust thought as far as xiphoporus go , if it has a sword its a swordtail if it doesnt its a platy . i only ask this cos i was just reading another thread where it referred to xiph . cortezi as platys , i personally bought a pair of these at an auction and at the mo ive not attempted to raise any fry from them as they are just in a community . i was always under the assumption this was a swordtail not a platy.

Cortezi is a swordtail.

It is not quite as simple as that, some platies have swords (andersi and xiphidium) and some swords do not have swords (eg pygmaeus)

You need to get a copy of Derek Lambert's book, there is no point me even trying to better his advice and his history. It is only about a fiver, well worth the expenditure.

http/www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0...1752&sr=8-1

 

[omega59]

okay why direct him/her to amazon to purchase a book LMAO! that's what this forum is for to answer questions not to redirect people. ANYHOW!

platies are, Xiphophorus maculatus
sword tails are, Poeciliidae

 

[dunchp]

okay why direct him/her to amazon to purchase a book LMAO! that's what this forum is for to answer questions not to redirect people. ANYHOW!

platies are, Xiphophorus maculatus
sword tails are, Poeciliidae

Damian is a very knowledgable fishkeeper and would benefit from reading this book.

Is that your answer, Swordtails are also from the genus Xiphophorus and Platies are also from the family Poeciliidae so I think you need to do a bit of research too.

The below is an extract from an article

Xiphophorus (meaning sword bearing) were first classified as such in the early to mid 1800s when three species (Xiphophorus helleri, Pseudoxiphophorus bimaculatus and Gambusia gracilis) were allocated to this new genus.

In the 1860s another genus, Platypoecilius was created into which Platypoecilius maculatus and variatus was placed. Over the ensuing 50 years or so, the differences which had been believed to set Xiphophorus and Platypoecilius apart were found to be false and other similarities (such as the reproductive structures) were identified and finally, in 1913 it was proposed and accepted to combine the two genus Platypoecilius and Xiphophorus.

By virtue of the fact that Xiphophorus was the first name, the combined genus was called Xiphophorus although platypoecilius lives on the the Platy’s common name.

In the 1990s, Rauchenberger suggested three sub-groups into which the genus Xiphophorus could be divided; the Northern Platyfish, the Southern Platyfish and the Swordtails and later in the 1990s, it was suggested that the Swordtail group could be further broken down into three ‘clades’ (and by the process of elimination a fourth clade).

Members of the Xiphophorus genus include some of the most invasive feral species (such as Xiphophorus helleri) and some of the most endangered species (such as Xiphophorus couchianus) of fish in existence.

They also include numerous endemic species, such as Xiphophorus milleri and kallmani from Laguna Catemaco, Xiphophorus gordoni from Cuatrocienegas and generally, with the exception of Xiphophorus helleri, Xiphophorus maculatus and Xiphophorus variatus, the ranges of each species is quite narrow.

 

[Colin_T]

And just to make matters worse most common platies and swordtails sold in shops are actually a hybrid being derived from crossing Xiphophorus helleri and X. maculatus & variatus. They did this yrs ago to get the colours.

Generally swordtails are characterised by the male developing a filament (sword) on his tail but as mentioned not all do. They are all in the same genus so you might be better off calling them by their scientific name rather than trying to work out platies and swords.

 

[damianhucker]

lol . colin t , thanx for that but that was slightly more basic than what i was actually asking , i wasnt talking about the platys or swordtails you commonly see in a shop . im talking about xiphophorous in general , basically what make for example xiph.nigrensis a swordtail not a platy for example as some that dont have a sword are known (i think) as swordtails . all gets rather confusing .

to omega59 , i personally dont think you should give advice unless you fully understand the topic , i manage a very succesful aquatic shop and its people giving incorrect advice that causes most of my problems on a day to day basis , for example people adding clown loach to a tank 2 days after setting it up , throwing in food twice a day then wondering why the tank has inhabitable levels of ammonia and nitrite , and then im the one who has to advise on how to correct it , which can take weeks or even months , inexperienced fishkeepers giving advice is one of the things that really annoys me at the moment , the other being when someone says "excuse me mate can you catch me some fish " and i politely reply "yes of course which ones would you like ? " the answer i then get is " errm dunno what there called there over here " WHAT!!!!!!! your supposed to research any fish before you buy , yet you cant even be bothered to learn the name !! . aaaarrrrggghhhh , thats soooo annoying , anyway enough of the ranting . lol

 

[dunchp]

I wasnt talking about the platys or swordtails you commonly see in a shop . im talking about xiphophorous in general , basically what make for example xiph.nigrensis a swordtail not a platy for example as some that dont have a sword are known (i think) as swordtails . all gets rather confusing .

Hi Damian, this is confusing and I am not sure that I know the answer.

The obvious starting point is back in the mid 1800s when Xiphophorus and Platypoecilius genus's were erected. It was obviously confusing even then because of the three species allocated to the genus, only Xiphophorus helleri had a sword and the other species Goodea gracilis and Pseudoxiphophorus bimaculata do not have swords but the original and remaining members of the genus are Xiphophorus helleri and Platypoecilius maculatus and variatus.

In 1913 the two genus were combined and Xiphophorus (meaning Sword Bearing) was retained as it was the precedent name. It was not maintained because it was the most appropriate.

When new species have been found, they have often first been allocated as a subspecies before they are given their new name.

In the 1990s a number of groups were introduced; Northern Platyfish, Southern Platyfish and the Swordtails and then subsequently the Swordtails were allocated to various groups (Clades) of fish which were the most similar. Whenever a new species is identified, they are allocated to the Group and Clade which they are most similar to. So for instance, Xiphophorus kallmani was erected in 2003 and this was allocated to the helleri Clade.

I will try to sort out the list of which species belong to which group / clade when I get a chance over the next few days but try to remember that this classification system is completely manmade and fluid based on similarities and differences. So therefore, in the early 1900s the scientists discovered that the platies and the swords were very similar and combined the genuses and subsequently the genuses have developed by association as and when new species were introduced.

Obviously for us hobbyists, the existence or otherwise of the sword is an important factor because it is the thing we can see; but for scientists the appearance of a fish is a very small part of it's classification, the gonopodium structure, genetic code, dentition and other inconspicuous to the naked eye properties define which family, tribe, genus, group and clade a scientist places a species. Along with geographical factors.

So as Colin T said earlier in this thread, do not try and understand the differences between Swordtails and Platies, try to get used to the various species of Xiphophorus and accept which group they are placed into.