Whats killing my Gouramis?

[fishjamin]

Hi all,

I added some dwarf gourmis to my tank about 6 weeks ago and in that time 2 of them have died, one after about 3 weeks, another yesterday. Both were bought together from the same place, although one was a red dwarf and one was a blue dwarf so came from different tanks in the store. I do also have two stripey dwarfs from another store in there which so far seem to be ok.

In both cases whatever has taken them has come on very quickly and they've died within about 12 hours from first showing any signs of illness. There's no visible markings on them, nothing in their behavior to suggest anything was amiss, but in both cases they started lying on their side bottom of the tank, struggling to breathe or move, and died within a few hours (overnight in both cases).

From what I can tell this doesn't seem to be consistent with DGD so I'm wondering what's caused this, and if there is anything I can do to stop the others going the same way?

Tank parameters;

Size: 125l
Stock: 5 Dwarf Gourami (now 4), 8 Neon Tetra, 5 Harlequin Rasbora, about 5 shrimp and 2 snails
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: About 10-15ppm
PH: Hard for me to read the test on this one but looks to be about 7.2, possibly a bit higher
(All the above tested using the master test kit)
Temp: 24ish

I do approx 25% water change each week. The tank is about a year old and I've not lost a fish before so to loose two quite dramatically, and so soon after buying them, is a bit alarming.

Any advice on how to save the others?!

 

[Essjay]

What symptoms did they display?

I'm wondering if they had dwarf gourami disease, which is incurable and many dwarf gouramis bred in the far east are infected by the time they reach the fish shop. Details of any symptoms would help to determine if this is what they had.




The other thing that stands out to me is that if the gouramis are/were red, blue and striped, they were males as females are plain silver with perhaps a hint of stripes. Male dwarf gouramis are, like all gouramis, territorial and at the more aggressive end of the gourami behaviour spectrum. It is advisable to have only one male in a tnak unless it is huge. In a 125 litre (33 gallon) tank, one of them is likely to have been picking on the others. This won't have killed them directly, but being bullied causes stress, which causes a lowered immune system which allows a fish to become sick more easily.

 

[fishjamin]

What symptoms did they display?

I'm wondering if they had dwarf gourami disease, which is incurable and many dwarf gouramis bred in the far east are infected by the time they reach the fish shop. Details of any symptoms would help to determine if this is what they had.




The other thing that stands out to me is that if the gouramis are/were red, blue and striped, they were males as females are plain silver with perhaps a hint of stripes. Male dwarf gouramis are, like all gouramis, territorial and at the more aggressive end of the gourami behaviour spectrum. It is advisable to have only one male in a tnak unless it is huge. In a 125 litre (33 gallon) tank, one of them is likely to have been picking on the others. This won't have killed them directly, but being bullied causes stress, which causes a lowered immune system which allows a fish to become sick more easily.

There were no symptoms as such - in both cases they appeared absolutely fine, first sign of them having any issue were them lying on the bottom of the tank looking like they were struggling to breathe then dying - this came on over the course of about 12 hours.

There was none of the typical DGD issues that I've read about - erratic behavior, skin growths, leisions discoloration, etc. It seems like DGD kills over a period of about 10 days as well, rather than 12 hours?

 

[Avel1896]

Hey @fishjamin
According to your description I'm pretty sure fish death is from fight for hierarchy : the dominant didn't want to be replaced by an other gourami and did everything to ensure its status. Heavy stress and maybe wounds may have kill the other gourami.
Did you notice wounds ?

This is a recurrent problem in LFS, sellers are unable to sex either Tricogaster lalius or chuna males from females : result is fights that often end very sadly...

 

[Colin_T]

There were no symptoms as such - in both cases they appeared absolutely fine, first sign of them having any issue were them lying on the bottom of the tank looking like they were struggling to breathe then dying - this came on over the course of about 12 hours.

If the water quality is good, and it appears to be, then the most likely cause is internal organ failure caused by Fish TB or some other internal infection.

Any idea if they did a stringy white poop?

 

[SarahPar]

With the speed of death it is likely either from sudden extreme stress like from fighting or from some sort of gill disease.
Hence the struggling to breathe and laying on the bottom.

I'd suggest to improve the airation in the tank by adding a pump and positioning it toward the top of the tank so that aggitates the water surface. And do a formalin bath on the surviving one/s.
That should dislodge any gill parasite.

 

[Slaphppy7]

"The signs are not always visible externally. Your fish might even look perfectly fine. This is dangerous because you might not know what fish has the disease when you’re keeping them together in an aquarium tank."

Source: https://helpusfish.com/1/17/dwarf-gourami-disease-guide.html

 

[fishjamin]

Looks like I'm about to lose another one. Any signs from this pic what's ailing him?

In terms of airation I've got two air pumps in there as well as the filter, should this not be enough?

Interetingly the 6 gouramis I have in there are from two different stores (4 from 1, 2 from another) and the 2 that have died and 1 that is now poorly are all from the same place. Coincidence or dodgey batch?

 

[fishjamin]

If the water quality is good, and it appears to be, then the most likely cause is internal organ failure caused by Fish TB or some other internal infection.

Any idea if they did a stringy white poop?

I didn't see anything poop relating amiss no...

 

[Slaphppy7]

Looks like I'm about to lose another one. Any signs from this pic what's ailing him?

In terms of airation I've got two air pumps in there as well as the filter, should this not be enough?

Interetingly the 6 gouramis I have in there are from two different stores (4 from 1, 2 from another) and the 2 that have died and 1 that is now poorly are all from the same place. Coincidence or dodgey batch?

View attachment 140174

My money would be on poor stock...

 

[SarahPar]

Would have to of seen a video of the fish swimming and it's deterioration. One picture isn't really enough.

Well there is no obvious ich.
Could be viral or a gill parasite

 

[Avel1896]

Yhis is a male that suffering stress due to one or two other males (explanations above).
Please post pictures of your fishes.

 

[fishjamin]

Some more pics, including one of the general tank with the other fish. I have a vid but can't upload?

 

[fishjamin]

This should be the vid

 

[SarahPar]

Hmm there is nothing externally on the fish. So it could be either gills or an internal issue/disease.

Does it eat? Whats the poop look like?