What Size Tank Would I Need For These Rams?

[Gurglar]

So i'm thinking of buying another tank so I can get some german blue rams and gold rams.

Now if I was to just get 1 pair what size tank would I need?

If I wanted a blue pair and a gold pair what size would I need?

What other types of fish could I put in with german rams if I wanted to (don't plan on it most likely going to be a ram tank only)?

what do you guys think I should go with?

 

[KittyKat]

From experience, I would say at least 24x12x12 inches for one pair, 36x15x15 for two pairs. Note: no guarantee that the fish will pair up wild type-wild type and gold-gold, you can get two wild type-gold pairs.

I have kept my wild caught and F1 from wild with tetras (smaller species make excellent dithers), corys, livebearers (not perfect match), keyholes (good success), plecos, Betta sp., small gouramis and probably a few others I can't remember right now.

If I was in your place, I would buy a 36x15x15, add sand or fine black gravel, *lots* of bogwood, plant heavily, cycle, add 15 tetras (gradually) and about 3-6 months from start of tank get a good quality young adult pair of wild type (blue) rams. Or as above, but instead get half a dozen juvenile unpaired young and remove 4 later on, keeping only the best pair.

 

[Gurglar]

I thought german blue rams should not be kept with tetras because they require different temperatures?

 

[KittyKat]

Most tetras and blue rams are both happy in 23-27°C (73-80°F).

 

[Truck]

Mikrogeouphagus ramirezi (Blue, Gold and Electric blue rams) need to be kept at temperatures of 28-32oC as this is the temperature at which they are found in the wild, fail to do this and you face either of these 3:

Hexamita, Slow Immune response and Slow digestion.

PH and GH also play an important factor, PH should be between 5-6.5 and the GH no more than 10 degrees.

You need 20 gallons per pair and at least 2 square feet per pair.

Suitable tank mates are those that can handle the temperature, PH and GH requirements of this fish.

to be quite honest your better off with Bolivian rams

 

[Wills]

Mikrogeouphagus ramirezi (Blue, Gold and Electric blue rams) need to be kept at temperatures of 28-32oC as this is the temperature at which they are found in the wild, fail to do this and you face either of these 3:

Hexamita, Slow Immune response and Slow digestion.

PH and GH also play an important factor, PH should be between 5-6.5 and the GH no more than 10 degrees.

You need 20 gallons per pair and at least 2 square feet per pair.

Suitable tank mates are those that can handle the temperature, PH and GH requirements of this fish.

to be quite honest your better off with Bolivian rams

Agreed, if you want to mix fish I would go for Bolivians or some kind of Dwarf Acara. Like Nannacara Anomala or Laetacara Dorsiger bit different but not too hard to find IMO.

 

[KittyKat]

Mikrogeouphagus ramirezi (Blue, Gold and Electric blue rams) need to be kept at temperatures of 28-32°C as this is the temperature at which they are found in the wild

It is very rare to come across an environment where the temperature is limited to a 4° range, the most common areas where this occurs tend to be at the bottom of the oceans. If you do not believe me, look up the air temperature of the area where wild rams live: the average summer (air) temperatures tend to be in the 28°C range, but winter temperatures fall into the 22-23°C range, while average throughout the year is around 25°C.
Now to water temperatures: water in full sunlight will heat up to 32°C, 33°C or even higher without too much of a problem from 28°C.. but what happens at night? In the space of a few hours after sunset, the temperature of the water will have already dropped by a few degrees.. and over winter?
So where did you get the 28-32° figure? Unfortunately I can't get hold of the original paper describing them, but that - at least to me - would indicate that the fish were collected in the summer.

Now I have a proposal for you: you say that you are interested in biology, plants etc.. and I happen to have a friend who is leading a fish collecting expedition next August into the river Nanay area.. I know not quite Orinoco, but I hear that it is, nevertheless, stunning and the trips includes visiting exporters facilities. The cost of the trip is expected to be about £1400 including flights from Gatwick, or £2000 including flights and freight for the fish you catch. The main fish on the agenda will be Apistos and the non-native ‘Nanay’ discus. I would be going myself, but money matters are not allowing me the oportunity, so I am only getting fish. But if you are able to get that much cash together and are at least 16 years old by the time of departure, then I would strongly recommend the trip.

fail to do this and you face either of these 3:

Hexamita, Slow Immune response and Slow digestion.

I have kept a number of wild caught and a number of German bred ram pairs at various temperatures over the years, ranging from 22°C all the way to 30°C. None of the fish I had ever suffered from any symptoms relating to the diseases you mention above.. in fact, I have never seen any sign of disease in my fish at all. I suspect that good care, water quality and appropriate food have more of an effect on the health of the fish then the temperature.

PH and GH also play an important factor, PH should be between 5-6.5 and the GH no more than 10 degrees.

Agreed that water quality is very important.

 

[Truck]

The temperature in their natural habitat will shift, but 28-32oC is an Ideal temperature, and we can't easily replicate seasons in our aquarium. Some of the european stock can be quite hardy, due to the breeders using certain antibiotics etc.

I quote from the original description: (Myers, G.S. & R.R. Harry; 1948; "The Ramirezi dwarf cichlid identified"; The Aquarium (Philadelphia); 17 (4); p 77)


Microgeophagus ramirezi (Myers & Harry 1948), the Ram Cichlid. South America; Orinoco River in Venezuela and Columbia. To two and a half inches in length. Cond.s: pH 5-6, dH 5-12, temp. 27-30 C.
[font="'Century Gothic"]
[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]The temperatures listed were taken during the autumn months, in the summer months temperatures would reach 33oC and in the winter months 26oC[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]
[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]The trip you mentioned sounds very interesting, unfortunately I'm in college next year, but once I've left further education it is a trip I would be willing to pursue. [/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]
[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]Over on web wet media there are hundreds of people asking why their rams have a certain disease, I don't know if its a false correlation but it seems to be a pretty strong one, but most of these diseases appear to be related to them being kept at the wrong temperature and sometimes, water parameters also.[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]
[/font]
[font="'Century Gothic"]In my experience the GH and PH are the most important factors, as long as the temperature never dips below 26oC and remains fairly consistent along with Ideal water parameters, the OP shouldn't have a problem keeping them. I wish shops wouldn't make them so widely available because they're not the most resilient fish.[/font]